M2819 doctrine of Antichrist part 1/2 taken from my discussion on carm with someone named M2819 who will be referred to as M
M:I believe Scripture when it says the Word (God) BECAME flesh, not just entered and lived in a fleshly shell.
mlculwell: It would be impossible for the word to live in fleshly shell! By the Word/Logos of the LORD were the heavens made and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.(Psalm 33:6 Septuagint) The word was not the pre-existent Jesus the word was the plan of God for future redemption. Tyndale Called the word an *it* in (John 1:1) but that is fine, I do not have to, but the day you can make the word by the breath of God's mouth another person of God is the day you will have an argument.
M:I don’t rely on Creeds for this truth; I rely on the Bible. The Creeds support this truth, but they are firmly rooted in Scripture. Scripture is the final authority, and it is not supportive of the nonsense you claim to believe.
mlculwell: Well then show me in the scriptures your nonsense? Your Ghost in the shell does not work and nonbiblical.
mlculwell: Do you even know what you believe? You are again admitting to your hybrid nonsense where you make no distinction between the spirit and flesh while Jesus walked the earth to fulfill that which his flesh had to accomplish not as your hybrid! If God becomes man, he is no longer God but man! God never pulled that trick! you are again contradicting yourself and to save face you go back and forth between my doctrine and yours so you will not be caught which you clearly are!
M:Response: I’m "admitting" to what Scripture teaches: THE WORD BECAME FLESH. It doesn’t say THE WORD CAME TO EARTH AND HUNG OUT IN A HUMAN SHELL.
mlculwell: LOL! Yeah, the plan of God was For God to take on flesh and redeem mankind by that sinless flesh, as he gave the man the spirit by no measure, it does not mean your hybrid doctrine nor has it ever!(1st. Cor.15:21) You deny the Lord who bought you with your Hybrid and deny this passage your salvation and your resurrection..
The same spirit that raised Jesus from the dead is the same spirit that raises us from the dead(Romans 8:11)
M:If the Word became flesh, then that’s what happened. That’s not what you believe evidently. You cling to some bizarre belief that God entered a human existence, yet God never really, truly became human.
mlculwell: That is not at all what John 1:1 is teaching! Let me be clear John 1:1 is not teaching "God the son" became flesh! John 1:1 is teaching the plan of God was For God to give his real sinless son his spirit by no measure and redeem mankind. With this view you neither have redemption, resurrection or a mediator(1st.Cor. 15:21, 1st. Tim. 2:5)
M:It was all a farce according to your “theology”. You spend so much time telling me what I believe, that you don’t take the time to get a fraction of it accurate. You make statement after statement that is not representative of what I believe, and certainly is not faithful to what I have written in my previous posts. But I think that’s the Oneness way: Because your “religion” is such a complete joke the only chance you have of not coming off looking like a complete fool is by twisting what Trinitarians believe.
mlculwell: I do not take what you mean to say I take what you say literally and compare it to scripture and then point out you contradict logic and scripture! you do not like that well I will continue to do so! You talk about a Joke your doctrine is one contradiction after another I do not have that nor any at as yet!
M:That’s the only way you can make your own beliefs seem a little less heretical, and a wee bit more logical.
mlculwell: I am really happy and glad that a man with such a heretical doctrine as your hybrid shell game doctrine thinks I am heretical, that is Like a JW or Har'e Krishna calling me a heretic!
mlculwell: Um, that is not correct! I believe Jesus was a real man(Body, soul, and human spirit.) the same thing that has always been taught and debated against your ilk! I am not a "human shell," but if I had no real human spirit I would be a "human shell." If i had the spirit of God simply animating my body with no real human spirit I would neither be a real man but a Hybrid new species which is what I am accusing you of.
M:Response: So it sounds like to me that you are agreeing with Schmitty and Kjammer on their beliefs: You are saying that the son was nothing more than the humanity.
mlculwell: I will tall you what Schmitty and Kjammer were denying and that is your doctrine of "God the son" which I vehemently deny also! Like I said: there is not Oneness person anywhere that does not believe Jesus is God! I also told you though already that when you speak of Jesus while he walked this earth you cannot talk about him separate from the incarnation Now there was a distinction between the spirit and the flesh while he walked this earth but again that no longer even remains!
M: It’s the same old story of the divine spirit entering a human shell, not becoming human.
mlculwell: where do you get the Human shell? Especially when that is clearly your doctrine and you admit Jesus has no real human spirit thus a shell(Not my doctrine!) If the divine spirit "becomes a man?" then he is no longer a divine spirit but a man. That is a pretty neat trick but you spout your mantra and have given no thought to any of this. if anybody has the shell doctrine it is you with your Jesus who animated a shell who left the shell and then went back to the comfort heaven ignoring passages Like (Eccl. 3:21, Luke 23:46,1st. Cor. 15:21,Romans 8:11)
M:I don’t believe that Jesus had a divine spirit animating one half of his body and a human spirit animating the other.
mlculwell: No, you believe he had divine spirit animating his whole Body and not a real human spirit to make a real human man. You have your Hybrid Hercules and with the above said there is getting around it!
M:Jesus had ONE SPIRIT and this spirit was like no other before: the perfect synthesis of divinity and humanity.
mlculwell: Yeah and it is Called Hercules Hybrid! you are caught in your doctrine there is no way out of it! You deny Jesus real humanity which is the doctrine of Antichrist(1st.John 4:3)
M:Jesus was FULLY divine and FULLY human, yet Jesus was ONE PERSON; Jesus had ONE SPIRIT.
mlculwell: How can someone be fully human with no human spirit? I will tell you how, because you keep saying it enough that you actually believe your Antichrist doctrine is true! If I had no human spirit would I be truly man? No! I would not even exist, I wouldn't even be dead as the spirit goes on into eternity! I would be a lifeless shell. Thus your shell being animated by the divine spirit never really experiencing death nor humanity. your doctrine is an ancient heresy m known as Apollonarianism.
M:I’ve talked to a lot of Oneies over the past 10 years, but you are the most confused one I’ve ever encountered. I don’t think you have the first idea what it is you believe…
mlculwell: I could care less who you have talked with. You think I am confused all you want but I actually know what I believe and it is clear to you do not! I do not try and conform to anyone else but the scriptures if I stick with the scriptures I cannot go wrong!
mlculwell: That is real hard to tell as it seems I cannot pin you down on any one thing.. It seems you want your cake and eat it too in speaking out of both sides of your mouth. You did say God checked out concerning my doctrine meaning your God the son did not check out but what/?? splain that please?
M:Response: Explain it? I can’t even understand what you’re asking! I don’t believe God “checked out” – I NEVER said that! That’s your view of things.
mlculwell: Of course you do not as it is not sticking to your mantra. "Jesus was fully man and fully God." You just spout words you have heard other trinity folk say never giving any consideration how that is so.
you said explain being checked out? Well, let's see here. The spirit leaving the body is what constitutes death(Eccl. 3:21,James 2:26) You again thoughtlessly spout words giving no thought. God as spirit cannot experience death the man's human spirit only would have to rely that to the divine spirit. Just like the son did not even know the time of his own return the father cannot experience death as the divine spirit is not capable of dying.
mlculwell I said nothing about "natures." except natures do not die people die! God does not! I never said anything about "separate" either. If can that I will print this and eat it! I believe there was a real distinction between the humanity and divinity while Jesus walked the earth so as the son could fulfill that which he had to do. I do not believe that exists any longer! I deny your nonspiritual view of the incarnation! it is not bible!
M:Response: So, natures don’t die, huh?
mlculwell: People die! "If Natures die" then God can die? God is a spirit he is more than a nature! You only spout that to try and figure out how Jesus can be One person, it is not hard to figure that out... I am tired of hearing that mantra from both sides!
M:Jesus’ human nature didn’t die on the cross – it survived the physical death? That’s a pretty bizarre statement.
mlculwell: Yeah, it is, but I am not that one who said it, you did for me!
The human spirit leaving the Body is what constitutes death. That is what happened when Jesus died. it was not Just a human nature he was a real human man that was given the spirit by no measure(John 3:34) that is the real incarnation.
M:While Jesus may still have his glorified human body, is he still human and does he still possess a human nature?
mlculwell: The glorified Human man still possesses the spirit as his own spirit making One person of God, there now is no is distinction.
M: I hear you saying that you “believe” there was a distinction between the divinity and the humanity, but I disagree. Jesus was to fulfill his mission on earth as God incarnate, not just as a human being.
mlculwell: His real humanity purchased our resurrection, salvation, and is our mediator you have neither!(1st. Cor. 15:21, 1st. Tim. 2:5)
M:Sorry, but we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on this matter, unless you can show me some Scripture that backs up what it is you claim to believe.
mlculwell: I have clearly stated what I believe the scriptures to teach on the matter! And How you deny Jesus real humanity and it is the doctrine of Antichrist.
mlculwell: No that is not what I am saying! But I am saying the shell doctrine is your doctrine, You have a puppet being animated by God and no real man in your view of the incarnation! If God "becomes a man," I would like for you to tell me how it is he becomes a man and is at the same time God? this is another one of those thoughtless doctrines of the trinity!
M:Response: See… what you say above is not even close to what I believe! Either you’re purposefully twisting my words, or you simply lack the ability to understand simple English. I don’t have a “shell” doctrine. Jesus was fully God and fully human,
mlculwell: You do have the shell doctrine unless you want to step out of your mantra and explain it!
M:not simply the divine spirit inhabiting a human shell. I don’t believe that. Jesus was not a puppet. Jesus was a holistic person who was both fully divine and fully human. He had ONE SPIRIT – a spirit that was fully divine and fully human –
mlculwell: "A spirit that was fully divine and human"??? How is that possible? That is definitely a hybrid mixture.LOL! Do I have a spirit that is both divine and human? We are told our unity is Just Like Jesus unity in (John 17:21) The human united to the divine same is true with Jesus read it! the Only difference being Jesus unity was by no measure or limits(John 3:34) Ours is by a measure.(Eph. 4:7) Come back and explain that?
M:that guided his thoughts and his actions. No puppet. Where do you come up with these ridiculous notions?
mlculwell: Simple, listening to you tell me and answer my questions! You have a puppet animated by "God the son."
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