James White and the Forgotten Trinity , Better Forgotten.

Thought would revisit James White's very flawed book since a trinitarain has wrote in defense of the term being and person


James White writes the following from his book The Forgotten Trinity

Chapter 12 pg 171 A Closer Look


James writes: "There are three kinds of beings who are personal:God,
men, and Angels. I have being ,I exist, Yet I am personal.My being is
personal and finite.It is limited to one place geographically
speaking,and one time temporarily speaking."

There are more gems from this book but this is damning enough to ask; where does Jesus
stand in this? Will anyone come to Jame's defense? I cannot wait to dig out more .


Which Being Is Jesus? Is he the being of man, or the being of God, or
the new being of both?

I ask this question because James is Caught in a dilemma with his doctrine He quotes on the same page;" the divine being( God) is One"( being) the divine(God) persons are (shared by) three" (persons.)( parenthesis are mine)


Which Being Is Jesus humanity? Is he the being of man, or the being of God, or
the new being of both? Humanity most definitely is being. This contradicts White in his book.

To be fair I submitted this critique on my debate group and received the following reply from a Trinitarian.

"The content of the quotation you included does not directly deal with this question, as Mr. White's point is not to consider the relation of the human to the divine in Jesus but to demonstrate that there is a 'personal' aspect of God and angels and humans.

Notwithstanding that, there is nothing directly in this quotation that would preclude Jesus from being located within its categories.

If you supplied the surrounding context it would probably present a far better overview of Mr. White's thinking along this particular argument".

I will do just that!

James writes on page 158 -160 How that Jesus is One person with two natures. James continues "he is not two persons nor are his natures somehow mixed together."

Very good, that gives us something to work with. What I do not see in all of Jame's book is an answer to these important question. Natures do not die, people die!

At the outset James stated; "he was one being", is not Jesus real humanity a being? He simply never says in his book, that I can see. (James makes an attempt in pages 66-70) of his book but nothing really meaningful. God is One Being, Jesus is a real human being, thus in my estimation we have two beings, "one of these things are not like the other." to quote the ol Sesame street song. We do not have two beings of God, we also do not have two of the same beings, we have one human being, and one being of God. In the incarnation, if true, we have two beings, but not two persons, God is not a person , persons die...When Jesus died as to his real humanity the being of God did not die, God cannot die. The Trinitarian view of Jesus would be a new being. Just because you equivocate with the copout of natures does not excuse us of answering these questions that are important. I believe the trinitarian view of being and person is weak and showcase those weak areas of thier doctrine especially since Dr. White is the contemporary Authority on the subject.


Faithful Witness said...

Your critique has a fatal flaw. You fail to understand what a "being" is and what a "person" is. These are not terms that are synonyms.


The definition of being: What makes SOMETHING what it is.

The definition of person: What makes SOMEONE who they are.

A grasp of these terms will serve you greatly in your critique of Dr. White's book.


mlculwell said...

I am both a human being and a person so is Jesus. You dishonestly cannot admit that otherwise your doctrine is polytheism(Too many beings for the trinity) That fatal flaw is your doctrine and James Whites doctrine the trinity is just plain contradictory...


Faithful Witness said....
"Jesus was both a real 100% human being and the real 1oo% being Known as God."

This is absolutely illogical. He (meaning the Son of God) was FULLY God and FULLY man. That is to say, He is fully God as to His divine nature, and fully man as to His human nature. This is what the orthodox doctrine of the hypostatic union (and for that matter the bible) teaches (council of chalcedon 451AD).

mlculwell: Oneness says Jesus is 100% man and 100% God! So the 100% God would be the being and nature of God and the 100% man would be the being and nature of God but it seems you have a new being of neither.... You mix natures, which is the being of a real man and the being of the real God?




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span style="font-weight:bold;">Faithful Witness said...

"You mix natures, which is the being of a real man and the being of the real God?"

No, Trinitarians don't mix the two natures. That would be the complete opposite of what we believe. Read the council and you will clearly see this truth. You are in error and clearly ignorant of the Trinitarian position. Jesus has had and will always maintain an eternal divine nature. He is the eternal Son of God, and is every thing God is; He is fully God. Jesus took upon Himself a human nature. This is an additional nature, not a substitute or combination. He did not divest Himself of a single attribute of His deity. Instead, He became a servant, taking on human form (an additional nature). He then became obedient to the Father, even unto death.

mlculwell...What a sham! "Jesus has had and will always maintain an eternal divine nature.He is the eternal son of God"?

One part of God is simply calling the other daddy and the other son in name only in a sham fake relationship of himself? man do you think at all about what you are saying that is your problem you quote some Creed or confession like it is the word of God irregardless how bad it sounds or contradicts scripture! God the father did not and could not put down his power but hid his power in the son.(Jesus as limited son or being as real man) had no power of his own(John 5:30) But was given his power(Math.28:18) the being God took on the being of the real man it was not two beings of God it was one real being of man and one real being of God which you deny! Jesus as a real limited man did not even know the time of his own second coming but the father only(Mark 13:32) Your version of (Philippians 2:6) of a pre-incarnate Jesus is polytheism as you have God equal to God(Two Gods) The one who thinks himself as God equal to God.Think about it? there is no such thing as an "eternal son of God" that is fakery and nonsense!

God is organized and Logical

I did not write this but received it in an email from my wife, thought I would submit it here as It makes me think of the Goodness and order of God and why I give and trust my life to him.

Author Unknown.....

GOD'S ACCURACY How lovely to think
about the way our Creator God planned everything so
carefully and perfectly, everything with a plan. As His
highest creation,
'we are fearfully and wonderfully made.'

God's accuracy may be observed in the hatching of
eggs.
For example:
The eggs of the potato bug hatch in 7 days;
Those of the canary in 14 days;
Those of the barnyard hen in 21 days.
The eggs of ducks and geese hatch in 28 days;
Those of the mallard in 35 days.
The eggs of the parrot and the ostrich hatch in 42 days.
(Notice, they are all divisible by seven).
God's wisdom is
seen in the making of an elephant. The four legs of
this
great beast all bend forward in the same direction. No
other Quadruped is so
made. God planned that this animal would have a huge body,
too large to
live on two legs. For this reason He gave it four fulcrums
so that it can rise from the ground easily.

The horse rises from the ground on its two front legs
first.
A cow rises from the ground with its two hind legs first.

How wise the Lord is in all His works of creation!
God's wisdom is revealed in His arrangement of sections
and segments, as well as in the number of grains.

Each watermelon has an even number of strips on the rind.
Each orange has an even number of segments.
Each ear of corn has an even number of rows.
Each stalk of wheat has an even number of grains.

Every bunch of bananas has on its lowest row an even number
of bananas, and
each row decreases by one, so that one row has an even
number and the next row an odd number.

The waves of the sea roll in on shore twenty-six to the
minute in all kinds
of weather.

All grains are found in even numbers on the
stalk.
The Lord specified thirty fold, sixty fold,
and a hundredfold - all even numbers.

God has caused the flowers to blossom at certain specified
times during the
day, so that Linnaeus, the great botanist, once said that
if he had a
conservatory containing the right kind of soil, moisture
and temperature,
he could tell the time of day or night by the flowers that
were open and
those that were closed!

Thus the Lord in His wonderful grace can arrange the life
that is entrusted to His care in such a way that it will
carry out His purposes and plans, and will be fragrant with
His presence. Only the God-planned life is successful. Only
the life given over to the care of the Lord is safe.
*Author unknown

ALWAYS REMEMBER TO PRAY AND GIVE THANKS TO THE GOD THE
GIVER OF ALL GOOD
THINGS!

May The Lord Gently Wrap You in His
Love.

Silly,God prays to God?

Faithful witness a hate filled blog writer, who has a a Oneness hatred blog, writes the following from his blog in answer to a comment concerning the writers rant concerning T.D. Jakes,hoping someone Oneness would come to Jakes defense which we will not, like Oneness are supposed to defend Jakes a compromiser in my opinion rubbing shoulders with trinity Broadcast station, Besides, he is an adult he can defend his own views...

FW writes: "I'd be careful who you call silly. After all, I am not the one who believes that what happened in Gethsemane was God's flesh praying to God's spirit. Cloak it with whatever twist you might, that is what ultimatley you and yours propagate."


What is silly is that your view of God, and you have actually given No thought because of your clear blind hatred for something you have no understanding, is that your doctrine has God praying fake prayers to God which is silly doctrine. At least that real flesh was a real man subject to his real God rather than God having Multiple personality disorder which is the doctrine of the trinity.

Charismatic Starts preaching Acts 2:38, rejects Mental assent

Andrew Strom A Trinitarain Charismatic from New Zealand embraces and preaches Acts 2:38

Listen to him preach the message

http://freegroups.net/groups/anzac/www/Must-Preach-Foundations.mp3


http://www.revivalschool.com/Shocking-Bible-Study.html