A ONENESS PERSPECTIVE OF JOHN 16:13

Robert A. Sabin

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: FOR HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF; BUT WHATSOEVER HE SHALL HEAR, THAT SHALL HE SPEAK: and he will shew you things to come. - John 16:13

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I. What is the importance of a study on one passage of scripture which shows the Spirit as "not speaking of himself; speaking what he hears?"

In three main passages in the Gospel of John, chapters 14, 15, 16, Jesus spoke of the coming Spirit in third person language using the pronoun "he" in such a way that translators and interpreters have determined that the Spirit was other-than-Jesus and other-than-Father.

In one verse within these passages, John 16:13, Jesus is further thought to use "agent terminology" or "prophetic enablement terminology" to describe how the Spirit of Truth is enabled to speak, terminology which shows that Spirit is unable to act independently, to speak "of himself." The Spirit is the passive receiver of divine information which he then relates to those he inhabits. The source of the information which the Spirit "hears and speaks" must be either Jesus who would then be speaking to the Spirit who "hears" the message that Jesus speaks and relays it to believers, or it must be the Father who speaks to the Spirit who then relays the message to believers. In either case, the Spirit is not deemed to be the originator of the words but an agent of either Jesus or the Father. The Spirit, by this relationship with Jesus and/or the Father, becomes "other than either."

Such conclusions require a distinction of person between Jesus and the Spirit, or between the Father and the Spirit, or between all three, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and thus require the existence of a Trinity.

Important questions arise relative to the ONEness of the Godhead and the absolute deity of Jesus Christ because of these conclusions. Is the Spirit actually one other-than Jesus, one who mediates divine communications, passing them on to believers? Is the Spirit actually one other-than-the Father, one who mediates divine communications, passing them on to believers? does the Spirit have existence as a person distinct from both the Father and the Son? Are Father, Son and Holy Spirit three distinct persons in the Godhead, peers, collateral persons who collaborate to accomplish the divine will?

It is generally agreed that the doctrine of the Holy Spirit as the third person in the Godhead was a late addition to the creeds, and possesses a paucity of scriptural support. "Down to the fourth cen-tury, the deity of the Holy Spirit came in for much less either of explicit assertion or of direct attack than that of the Son. Largely this was due to its raising no special problem; if the godhead was not unitary, it was as simple to conceive of three Persons as of two:" [G.L. Prestige, GOD IN PATRISTIC THOUGHT, SPCK, p. 80, London, 1936.]

"But it seems quite clear that the Jews never regarded the Spirit as a person; nor is there any solid evidence that any Old Testament writer held this view....the sacred writers never conceived or presented this Spirit as a distinct person....Many scholars seem convinced that in Paul the Holy Spirit is an impersonal divine force that is occasional-ly personified." [Edmund J. Fortman, THE TRIUNE GOD, A HISTORICAL STUDY OF THE DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY, p. 6, p. 9. p.21, Baker, Grand Rapids, MI, 1927.]

In the John Ankerberg Debate, April 30, 1985, Walter Martin was able to produce only one scripture which he believed ascribed deity to the Holy Spirit as a person distinct from either Jesus or the Father, Acts 5:3-4.

The doctrine of the Holy Spirit as a third person in the Godhead is the weakest link in the formulated doctrine of the Trinity. John 16:13 provides the strongest bit of evidence to support and strengthen that weak link, the doctrine of the Holy Spirit as a person other-than-God. disproving the evidence further weakens the link, hastening the breaking of the chain, releasing men to the revelation of truth.

Therefore, it is of great importance to give earnest consideration to the one text of scripture which is cited to prove that the Holy Ghost is a person other-than-God to whom God speaks.

II. WHAT JOHN 16:13 DOES NOT MEAN - Does the Holy Ghost have an enabler, a revealer who tells him what to say?

Is there anything in scripture other than this verse that would indicate that the Spirit of God receives and relays communications of divine truth from another person?

Quite to the contrary, the scriptures, Old and New Testaments, show the Holy Ghost to be the independent originator of divine actions, words and revelations.

CAN THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD BE DIRECTED OR COUNSELED?

Isaiah 40:13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or [being] his counselor hath taught him?

Romans 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counselor?

These verses, if no other, make it clear that the Spirit of the LORD does not receive, nor does he need to receive communications from any other. There is no other person or being, divine or human, capable of directing or counseling the Spirit of the LORD.

The Spirit of the LORD is the absolute originator of divine words and not a secondary source. The spirit neither needs nor possesses another more primary source as his enabler.

When the Holy Ghost speaks there is no hint that the Spirit is enabled by another to speak or that the Spirit receives communication as to what to say from another. The author of the Hebrews states that it was the Holy Ghost who was a witness to him, who also made the first person statements of God to the Old Testament prophet Jeremiah recorded in Hebrews 10:16 and 17. This Holy Ghost spoken of in Jeremi-ah 31:33 is called "the LORD," that is Yahweh. It was Yahweh's laws that were communicated to the hearts of the people.

Hebrews 10:15 [Whereof] THE HOLY GHOST also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This [is] the covenant that I WILL MAKE WITH THEM after those days, saith the Lord, I will put MY LAWS into their hearts, and in their minds will I WRITE THEM; 17 And their sins and iniquities WILL I REMEMBER NO MORE.

Jeremiah 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, SAITH THE LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Not only was the Holy Ghost Yahweh, he directly revealed unto the prophet that he would put his own laws into the people's hearts and write them in their minds. He also forgave and forgot their sins and iniquities without reference to any other. He was clearly the one God of the Bible acting independently in regard to his own purposes, called in this instance the Holy Ghost.

The Apostle Peter tells us without qualification that the entire Old Testament was directly inspired by the Holy Ghost who acted as the sole mover and revealer to holy men of God. Again, nothing is said of another, more primary revealer, who tells the Holy Ghost what to say.

II Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.

When Old Testament scripture are quoted in the New Testament, almost without exception the Old Testament text is referred to by the New Testament writer as directly authored by the Holy Ghost who spoke to the Old Testament prophet, imparting the message with no additional enablement.

Acts 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, WELL SPAKE THE HOLY GHOST BY ELAIAS THE PROPHET unto our fathers,

Mark 12:36 For DAVID HIMSELF SAID BY THE HOLY GHOST, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

In the same manner, the Holy Ghost in post-Pentecostal New Testament times would be the enabler of Spirit-directed communication by disciples, not one enabled to speak by yet another. In these references there is no indication that the Holy Ghost acted in any manner other than solely and directly upon the disciple. The Holy Ghost, the continuation of God's Spirit as understood in Old Testament times, is himself the revealer and enabler.

Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead [you], and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, BUT THE HOLY GHOST.

Luke 12:12 For the HOLY GHOST SHALL TEACH YOU in the same hour what ye ought to say.

How Jesus, when on earth communicated divine truth, is yet another matter. Without argument Jesus WAS enabled by the Spirit of the Father to speak, at least, so he said. Jesus' words were GIVEN to him. Jesus was said to speak or act "through the spirit." The Spirit of God was the supplier of the commandments, the words. Jesus, in common with all prophets, was the mouthpiece.

The Holy Spirit, however, was never such a "mouthpiece." The Holy Spirit, unlike Jesus, was never enabled to speak by the Father. To believe so would create the idea of two Spirits, one Spirit, the Father, who enabled the second Spirit, the Holy Spirit to speak.

Jesus, in scripture, was verbally related to the Spirit of the Father as all men are related to the Spirit of the Father. Divine words are given by God to men to proclaim. The Father's words were given to Jesus to proclaim. He proclaimed them as all prophets proclaimed them. [We are dealing here with relationship of the man to the Spirit, of the Son to the Father, and not with the question of whether or not Jesus was also actually the Father.]

We see in scripture the similarity between Jesus' relationship to the Spirit of God and the disciples' relationship to the Spirit of God in the way that they, Jesus AND the disciples, passed on divine communications. The disciples received direct communication from the Spirit and passed it on to others. In Acts 21:4 below, the disciples received communication from the Spirit which they passed on to the Apostle Paul.

Acts 21:4 And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.

In like manner, Jesus received communications from the Spirit and passed them on to the apostles whom he had chosen. The same terminology is used in both instances, they, Jesus AND the disciples acted "through the Holy Ghost."

Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he THROUGH THE HOLY GHOST had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

The Spirit of God within Jesus enabled the man Jesus to give commandments unto the apostles prior to his Ascension. Agent language is used of Jesus. Prophetic enablement language is used of Jesus.

But we see not in scripture some similar relationship between the Holy Spirit and the Father. Nothing is said or intimated about the Holy Ghost in this instance also being enabled by the Father to speak to Jesus so that Jesus could speak to the disciples. Since Jesus is like his brethren, he, as man, is enabled by the Spirit to teach. This "enabling" did not impinge upon his deity. As God, he needed no such enablement. In common with all other men, it was necessary for him to communicate as he was enabled to communicate by the Spirit of God.

But the Holy Ghost who enabled Jesus is not also said to be enabled by yet another enabler. No reference is made to any primary communication to the Spirit from someone other-than-the-Spirit, that is, apart from John 16:13.

the Holy Spirit as described in numerous scriptural texts needed no enabling in any of his activities, neither in the Old Testament, nor in the New. In both the Old Testament and the New, the Spirit acted unilaterally, powerfully, independently.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and dark-ness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the SPIRIT OF GOD moved upon the face of the waters.

Micah 3:8 But truly I am full of power by THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.

Isaiah 40:7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the SPIRIT OF THE LORD BLOWETH UPON IT: SURELY THE PEOPLE IS GRASS.

Isaiah 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD SHALL LIFT UP A STANDARD AGAINST HIM.

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because HE HATH ANOINTED ME to preach the gospel to the poor; HE HATH SENT ME to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Acts 15:28 For it seemed HOOD TO THE HOLY GHOST, AND TO US, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which THE HOLY GHOST HATH MADE YOU OVERSEERS, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Hebrews 3:7 Wherefore (AS THE HOLY GHOST SAITH, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10 Wherefore I WAS GRIEVED with that generation, and said, They do alway err in [their] heart; and THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN MY WAYS. 11 So I SWARE IN MY WRATH, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Hebrews 10:15 [Whereof] THE HOLY GHOST also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This [is] the covenant that I WILL MAKE WITH THEM after those days, saith the Lord, I will put MY LAWS into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities WILL I REMEMBER NO MORE.

We find neither a mention nor a thought in these references to the Spirit of the Lord, the Holy Ghost, being an agent of someone other-than-himself. The Spirit of the Lord moves, empowers, blows upon, raises a standard, anoints, reveals, appoints, speaks, is grieved, swears, and witnesses, all without a hint of one "other than himself" who enables these actions. Truly, the Spirit of the Lord is none other than God himself doing these things totally independently without "another" to direct or counsel him. The sole apparent exception to this is John 16:13.

III. WHAT, THEN, IS MEANT BY THE WORDS OF JOHN 16:13, "HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF, BUT WHATSOEVER HE HEARETH, THAT SHALL HE SPEAK." How is it that the Spirit of God can not be "directed, counseled," and yet, in this one instance, is said to only speak "what he hears."

We must direct our attention worst of all to the language of the verse as it occurs in the King James Version. The first clause states, "HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF." Some take this to mean that the Holy Ghost is modest and does no talk ABOUT HIMSELF. Robert M. Bowman of Christian Research Institute during the 1989 St. Paul, MN debate emphasized this modesty of the third person in the Godhead to explain the absence of mention of the Spirit in such New Testament passages as the salutations to the epistles and in such passages as

Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man KNOWETH THE SON, BUT THE FATHER; neither KNOWETH ANY MAN THE FATHER, SAVE THE SON, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him].

Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY AND THE LAMB are the temple of it.

In the first of these passages, the Father and the Son have knowledge of which the Spirit is apparently unaware.

In the Revelation passage where we might expect to find a mention of the third person since God and the Lamb are mentioned, the Spirit, if he is a third person, is strangely absent. There are many other such absences of mention of the Holy Spirit including but not limited to the salutations of the Epistles.

Mr. Bowman attributed this absence of mention of the Spirit to the Spirit's humility, likening the Spirit to a heavenly photographer who preferred to take scriptural "pictures" of the other two members of the Godhead. C. Norman Bartlett. S.T.D., in THE TRIUNE GOD, p. 183 attributes the Spirits's wish to reveal Christ rather than himself to the alleged modesty of the third person. "It is characteristic of the modesty of the Spirit that he seeks to reveal Christ rather than himself to the soul. In enthusiastically portraying the glowing excellence of a friend, a man often best reveals himself. He shows what his heart most treasures. It is even so with the Holy Spirit."

Such ideas, if not so tragically false, would be little more than ludicrous; and they miss completely the point of John 16:13. John 16:13 has nothing whatever to do with any alleged modesty or humility of the third person which causes him not to speak ABOUT himself. Once we have postulated the existence f a third person, it is such a small step to begin assigning this person distinctive attributes. This, the doctrine of the Trinity does. It invests the Father with certain relations, missions, attributes, and then proceeds to do the same for the other two persons, ostensibly without destroying co-equality. The more such thinking is indulge, the more ludicrous the idea of God is made to appear.

The second clause of the descriptive passage in John 16:13 ex-plains the first. The inhabiting Spirit does not speak "of himself," that is of his own origination, because he speaks "what he hears." Today's English Version translates the phrase, "He will not speak on his own authority." The Revised Standard Version renders the passage exactly the same.

This is not the way the Spirit is spoken of in the other passages we have considered. Why is there this change in the manner in which the Spirit is said to speak in John 16:13 from all other references in which the Spirit speaks? Why does the Spirit suddenly require enablement? Why has the independent, divine Spirit of God seemed to become someone else's agent?

One reason is found in the fact that in John chapters 14-16, for the first time, the Spirit is referred to as an inhabiter. The Spirit, when Jesus has gone away, would be INTERNAL to the disciples. The Spirit would have a new capacity, the capacity to indwell men. In John 7:38-39 Jesus declared and John explained that it was necessary that he, Jesus, be glorified before the Spirit could be given.

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was NOT YET GLORIFIED.)

When the Spirit inhabits the believer as the indweller, inhabiter, the Spirit, according to John 14:18 and many other texts, IS THE MAN, Jesus, glorified, made a quickening Spirit, and indwelling the believers. Jesus in the believer, therefore, speaks as he did while on earth, only what the divine Father reveals to the human Son, that is, only what he "hears."

But does not this contradict what has been said relative to the absolute independence of the Spirit of God? In a sense, it does, but with good reason which shall be given later in this paper.

Specifically, just what do the words, "He shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak," mean?

This phrase, "He shall not speak of himself," is a common Johanine phrase, most often applied to Jesus Christ as a sort of hallmark of his ministry. It was Jesus while on earth who did "not speak of himself," who in all things that he spoke attributed his words to an enabler, to the Father, who enabled him to speak and gave him the words.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I SPEAK NOT OF MYSELF: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether I speak God, or WHETHER I SPEAK OF MYSELF.

John 7:28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I AM NOT COME OF MYSELF, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not.

John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I HAVE NOT SPOKEN OF MYSELF; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Thus we see that the phrase, "I speak not of myself," with some variations, is a phrase commonly on the lips of Jesus which identifies the uniqueness of his ministry. Indeed, it is a special characteristic of the manner in which he speaks, a hallmark. He is not the originator of the words of his message. He is not the enabler of his own prophet-ic voice. He is one who is enabled by another, one who speaks another's message. Just who the enabler might be is made perfectly clear by Jesus himself.

John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38 I SPEAK THAT WHICH I HAVE SEEN WITH MY FATHER: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

John 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things THAT I HAVE HEARD OF MY FATHER I have made known unto you.

And again,

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I SPEAK NOT OF MYSELF: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Thus, Jesus provided the voice for his message, but the origina-tor of the words of the message was the Father. The words were the words of God; the voice was the voice of a man. Once spoken, he could refer to the words as either "his words" or the "Father's words" with-out significant distinctions. The words themselves, originated by God, spoken by the Messiah, were true words, words that would judge the hearers.

John 12:47 And if any man HEAR MY WORDS, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: THE WORD THAT I HAVE SPOKEN, the same shall judge him in the last day.

And no other words could be certain to be the truth. In proclaim-ing a prophetic message, only God himself is the author of true words. Any creature who purports to present God's words but does so of "himself," may not only be suspect but is also incapable of proclaim-ing truth. Prophetic Truth does not originate in creatures; it origi-nates in God alone. The creature is only the mouthpiece. Creatures can speak only their own thoughts, which are not God's thoughts, (Isaiah 55:8-9). Only god's thoughts are and words are truth. All else, unless it came originally from God, is not truth. By speaking, "not of him-self," Jesus spoke, as a creature, the unadulterated truth of Almighty God, who was the enabler.

John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of [your] FATHER THE DEVIL, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When HE SPEAKETH A LIE, HE SPEAKETH OF HIS OWN: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Satan's words, in contrast to those of Jesus Christ, originate in his own mind and are "of himself," and therefore have no truth in them.

Jesus' judgment and his words were true because they did not originate form the man. His judgment and his words originated in God. He was a man who spoke the words of God. He was the mouthpiece of God.

It is not correct, however, to say that Jesus and the Father were two individuals, two persons. Jesus was one individual, one person who was simultaneously God and man, Father and son. This manner of speaking about Jesus is subordinationist language does not describe a relationship between two existing persons, God and the man, the Father and the Son. [In scripture there is no such words as GOD THE SON.] Rather, it is God's unique way of allowing for one person, Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh, God and man, to exist simultaneous-ly in two categories, Creator and creature, without breaking the inviolable STRICTURES of either category.

John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you THE TRUTH, WHICH I HAVE HEARD OF GOD: this did not Abraham.

John 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. 16 AND YET IF I JUDGE, MY JUDGMENT IS TRUE: FOR I AM NOT ALONE,but I and the Father that sent me. 17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. 19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

Jesus "hears," he "is not alone," and yet to know him is to know the Father also. Those who regularly heard Jesus speak might be ex-pected to recognize the phrase, "He shall not speak of himself," as an identifying phrase, a hallmark, of Jesus himself. Thus, when Jesus referred to the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, as one who "speaks what he hears," he was referring to himself in another capacity in regard to believers. He who was with them would be in them. He who lived in the fleshly body would live as a quickening Spirit. He who was living in space would live omnipresently. And yet, he would retain his identity and his prerogatives as a man. He would "not speak of himself" when he existed within the disciples. When Jesus said those words in John 16:13, he gave a very significant clue, one rivaling the words of John 14:18, as to the actual identity in plain language of the coming inhabiter who would dwell in the believers.

When Jesus spoke of his departure and the coming of the Spirit in John 14, 15, 16, he used cryptic, enigmatic language, using "third person" pronouns for reasons that will be given below. Contained in these passages of cryptic language, however, are also plain statement which reveal "plainly" the identity of the Comforter.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for HE DWELLETH WITH YOU, AND SHALL BE IN YOU. 18 I WILL NOT LEAVE YOU COMFORTLESS: I WILL COME TO YOU.

The words, "I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter," are admittedly enigmatic. The fact that the Comforter is referred to as "another" has mistakenly be taken to show that the coming inhabiter was "another," one other-than-Jesus. However, this idea does not arise from the text itself but rather from a failure to consider the entire passage with not only the enigmatic words but the plain words as well. The words, "but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (John 14:18) I WILL NOT LEAVE YOU COMFORT-LESS: I WILL COME TO YOU," are plain words and give unmistakable indication that Jesus would himself be the Comforter. "I will not leave you orphans," that is, alone, by yourselves, which they would not have been had the Comforter been truly "another," one other-than-Jesus for this "other Comforter" would have made Jesus' coming to them redundant. Thus, Jesus in this passages is seen to be another Comforter, who would come to abide forever with the disciples.

In John 15:26 Jesus again uses enigmatic language concerning the Comforter. He is "sent" from the Father, "proceedeth" from the Father and "testifies" of Jesus.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The language appears to describe someone other-than-Jesus.

In the light of the plain words of John 14:18, the Comforter that Jesus "sends" form the Father is actually himself, "I WILL NOT LEAVE YOU COMFORTLESS: I WILL COME TO YOU" (John 14:18). The "another Comforter" is Jesus Christ glorified, made a quickening Spirit, inhabit-ing the disciples.

In like manner the Spirit of truth, which proceeds from the Father and testifies of Jesus, and which he described in John 16:13, is himself. He had "proceeded forth and came from God," John 8:42; he did not come "of himself," but was "sent;" he did not speak "of him-self." This inhabiter is none other than Jesus Christ glorified, made a quickening Spirit, inhabiting the disciples.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

The Spirit of Truth spoken of in John 15:26 is most clearly identified as Jesus Christ by the wording of John 16:13, and John 14:18 which again contain both enigmatic and plain language and strong clues to the identity of the coming Spirit.

Let us examine John 16:13 in light of what we have determined, that is that when Jesus speaks of the Spirit in John 14-16 he combines enigmatic language with plain language. He therefore refers to the Spirit in terminology previously reserved for himself as one who "does not speak of himself; but speaks that which he hears."

John 16:12 I HAVE YET MANY THINGS TO SAY UNTO YOU, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when HE, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, IS COME, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH: for HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.

The third person language of the pronouns, the actor/agent language, and the prophetic-enabler language are most often mistakenly understood to speak of a Spirit who is other-than Jesus. However, it is not the text itself taken totally which gives rise to such speculation but rather the failure to notice the plain language clues within the text. In verse 12 Jesus indicates that it is he, not another, who has many things to say to the disciples. While he stands among the, he is not enabled to speak these additional truths; for they could not bear the words. They could soon expect an inhabiting Spirit who would take these untaught truths of Jesus and show them more clearly to the disciples, speaking in the same genre that Jesus used, "not of him-self." He could in that relationship give them these truths because he would not just be "with them" as Jesus in flesh was, but would actually be "in them" as the inhabiting "Spirit of Truth."

This inhabiting Spirit of Truth was Jesus, himself. Jesus was the one who proceeded and came from God (John 8:42). Jesus was the one who refused to leave them "comfortless" and would come unto them (John 14:18). Jesus was the one who did not "speak of himself" (John 16:13). Jesus only "speaks what he hears," and he would continue to do so as the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth.

What is the background of this phrase, "HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF?"

When it refers to the inhabiting Spirit, how can it be recon-ciled with the fact that the scriptures state that no man can direct the Spirit of the Lord? Isaiah 40:13. How is it that John 16:13 por-trays an inhabiting Spirit who is, seemingly contrary to Isaiah 40:13, directed by another?

The phrase, "not speak of himself," are the words of prophetic enablement, which is the manner in which God gives his words to any true prophet of God and most specifically to the one prophet of God that would be raised up. The clear mark of identity of this prophet is that he, as Moses, would speak God's words, not his own words. This is the way that Jesus spoke while he lived on earth. This is the way that Jesus would continue to speak when he lived in the Holy-Ghost-filled disciples. The scriptural background for this language begins at least as early as the days of Moses.

Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put MY WORDS IN HIS MOUTH; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME, I will require [it] of him. 20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I HAVE NOT COMMANDED HIM TO SPEAK, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

Exodus 4:10 And Moses said unto the LORD, O my Lord, I [am] not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I [am] slow of speech, and of a slow tongue. 11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD? 12 Now therefore go, and I WILL BE WITH THY MOUTH, AND TEACH THEE WHAT THOU SHALT SAY.

As with no other man before or since outside of Jesus Christ, God was with Moses' mouth; that is, God taught Moses what to say. The prophet whom God would raise up after Moses would have this same characteristic. God would be with his mouth and would teach him what to say. He would not speak of himself; that is, to be the originator of his of his own message. He would speak what he heard, what God or the Father originated in him.

Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, LIKE UNTO ME; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Acts 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A PROPHET SHALL THE LORD YOU GOD RAISE UP UNTO YOU OF YOUR BRETHREN, LIKE UNTO ME; him shall ye hear.

Jesus Christ was "that prophet," the prophet like unto Moses, the prophet who did not speak of himself but spake as he "heard," as he "was taught," the words of God. This was the outstanding characteris-tic of his ministry, the hallmark of his manner of speech.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I SPEAK NOT OF MYSELF: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou THAT PROPHET? And he answered, No.

John 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither THAT PROPHET?

John 6:14 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth THAT PROPHET that should come into the world.

Acts 3:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not HEAR THAT PROPHET, shall be destroyed from among the people.

A legitimate question arises as to this unique relationship of Jesus Christ to the prophetic enabler, the Father, God himself. Did this make Jesus merely God's agent, God's spokesperson, a person other-than-God? The answer is obviously no. He was none other than God himself manifest in the flesh.

JESUS IS GOD, NOT GOD THE SON, NOT THE SECOND PERSON.

Psalms 45:6 Thy throne, O GOD, [is] for ever and ever: the scepter of thy kingdom [is] a right scepter.

Psalms 102:24 I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years [are] throughout all generations. 25 Of OLD HAST THOU LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH: and the heavens [are] the work of thy hands. 26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: 27 But thou [art] the same, and thy years shall have no end.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name IMMANUEL.

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was GOD.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.

John 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet HAST THOU NOT KNOWN ME, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself GOD.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD AND MY GOD.

Romans 9:5 Whose [are] the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who is over all, GOD BLESSED FOR EVER. Amen.

Colossians 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

Colossians 1:19 For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the GLORIOUS AP-PEARING OF THE GREAT GOD AND OUR SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST;

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O GOD, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. 10 And, Thou, LORD, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

II Peter 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

II Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

II Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 18 But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen.

I John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true GOD, and eternal life. [Windisch and Preisker, DIE KATHOLISCHEN BRIEFE, p. 135 saying refers to Christ, quoted in Cullman]

Jude 1:25 To the only wise GOD OUR SAVIOUR, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and for ever. Amen.

Revelation 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks [one] like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and [his] hairs [were] white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes [were] as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. (transfers to Jesus the description of the An-cient of Days in Daniel 7:13)

Plus all the kyrios passages: "Actually, the passages which confer upon Jesus the title Kyrios, the name of God, are at least as important as those in which he is directly addressed as "God....We have seen that on the basis of the designation Kyrios early Christianity does not hesitate to transfer to Jesus every-thing the Old Testament says about God (Cullman, p. 307)

That Jesus is God in flesh is not in question. The question regarding John 16:13 arises from the collateral fact that Jesus is not only God, but he is also a man, even when he inhabits the disciples; and as a man he shares in common with all mankind the human qualities, strictures and attributes in "all things." He does not such his human identity nor his human prerogatives when he is glorified nor when he inhabits believers. He continues to exist with human strictures, even within believers.

While he existed on earth, Jesus operated in all things in relationship to God and in relationship to man just as all other men had to operate.

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore IN ALL THINGS it behoved him to be made LIKE UNTO HIS BRETHREN, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things [pertaining] to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Jesus, a man born on earth, could not usurp the position of God. Therefore, he acted in relation to God as all men must live in relation to God.

BENEFACTION - As all men must receive all things from God, the benefactor, so Jesus Christ had to be a "receiver."

I Corinthians 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ [from another]? and what hast thou that thou DIDST NOT RECEIVE? now if thou didst receive [it], why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received [it]?

Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I GIVEN YOU ALL THINGS.

Acts 17:24 GOD THAT MADE THE WORLD AND ALL THINGS THEREIN, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing HE GIVETH TO ALL LIFE, AND BREATH, AND ALL THINGS;

Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but DELIVERED HIM UP FOR US ALL, how shall he not with him also freely GIVE US ALL THINGS?

Romans 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, ARE ALL THINGS: to whom [be] glory for ever. Amen.

I Corinthians 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; 22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; 23 And ye are Christ's; and CHRIST IS GOD'S.

II Corinthians 5:18 And all things [are] of God, who hath recon-ciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and HATH GIVEN TO US the ministry of reconciliation;

Ephesians 5:20 Giving thanks always for ALL THINGS unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

I Timothy 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, WHO GIVETH US RICHLY ALL THINGS TO ENJOY;

Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom [are] all things, and by whom [are] all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, TO MAKE the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is FROM ABOVE, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no varia-bleness, neither shadow of turning.

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I HAVE GIVEN YOU every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall INHERIT ALL THINGS; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Psalms 8:5 For thou HAST MADE HIM a little lower than the angels, and HAST CROWNED HIM with glory and honour.

So Jesus was a RECEIVER. All his prerogatives were given unto him.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is GIVEN UNTO ME in heaven and in earth.

PUPILLAGE - As all men must learn of God, be taught by God, possess no intrinsic divine knowledge, so Jesus had to learn in pupillage to the Father.

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall BE ALL TAUGHT OF GOD. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

I Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are TAUGHT OF GOD to love one another.

So Jesus was a pupil of the Gather, was taught of God.

John 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have HEARD OF MY FATHER I have made known unto you.

HUMAN AGENCY - No human being can act as God or in God's place without usurping God's glory, save as he acts as God's agent or representative. Jesus, although God himself, could only act in his human capacity as God's representative or agent. He was never God's agent in the sense that he was a being other-than-God. "The picture John presents is of Jesus as the Father's agent, drawn in contemporary Jewish terms of the SHALIAH, the one sent (cf. the parable of 13:16, 'an agent is not greater than he who sent him') The agent is wholly there to represent his principal, acting for him, speaking for him, doing nothing on his own account but everything with the accreditation, 5:43 seal, 6:27 and authorization 12:49 of him who sent him."

[THE PRIORITY OF JOHN, J.A.T. Robinson, p.350.]

Numbers 16:28 And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that THE LORD HATH SENT ME to do all these works; for [I have] not [done them] of mine own mind.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: AS I HEAR, I JUDGE:and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Acts 12:23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he GAVE NOT GOD THE GLORY: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

Revelation 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not TO GIVE HIM GLORY.

So Jesus acted in all ways as the Father's agent, doing the Father's will although he was never actually a mere agent of the Father. Agent language, yes; mere agent of another, no.

John 8:29 And he that SENT ME is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I DO ALWAYS THOSE THINGS THAT PLEASE HIM.

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless NOT AS I WILL, BUT AS THOU WILT.

CREATURE SUBORDINATION - Men cannot be God's equal. God is great-er than any man or than all men. Jesus, therefore, lived in obedient subservience, in subordination to God.

Isaiah 40:25 TO WHOM then will ye liken me, or SHALL I BE EQUAL? saith the Holy One.

John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is NOT GREATER THAN HIS LORD; NEITHER HE THAT IS SENT GREATER THAN HE THAT SENT HIM.

So Jesus acted in all things as the Father's subordinate.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my FATHER IS GREATER THAN I.

PROPHETICAL ENABLEMENT - As all men can only speak the word of God as they are enabled by God to do so, so Jesus Christ could only speak as he was enabled to speak, i.e., "NOT OF HIMSELF."

Exodus 4:12 Now therefore go, and I WILL BE WITH THY MOUTH, AND TEACH THEE WHAT THOU SHALT SAY.

Deuteronomy 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I HAVE NOT COMMANDED HIM TO SPEAK, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

John 7:18 HE THAT SPEAKETH OF HIMSELF seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Luke 12:12 For the HOLY GHOST SHALL TEACH YOU IN THE SAME HOUR WHAT YE OUGHT TO SAY.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU I SPEAK NOT OF MYSELF: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 12:49 For I HAVE NOT SPOKEN OF MYSELF; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

So Jesus always spoke by prophetical enablement and never "of himself," never using words or acts from his human capacity or for his human benefit.

John 12:49 FOR I HAVE NOT SPOKEN OF MYSELF; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Observing these and other creature characteristics did not make Jesus less than divine. He was God manifest in the flesh (I Timothy 3:16). As a man, however, he observed all the positional creature relationships toward the office of deity.

1. Was the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Truth referred to in John 16:13, a Spirit other-than-Jesus-Christ?

The answer to this question is no. The writers of scripture made no effort to show God's Spirit to be someone or something other-than-God.God, God's Spirit, God's word are simply different ways of speaking of God acting, speaking, revealing.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning GOD created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the SPIRIT OF GOD moved upon the face of the waters. 3 AND GOD SAID, Let there be light: and there was light.

When God speaks, the Holy Ghost speaks.

Isaiah 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. 9 AND HE SAID, Go, and tell this people, HEAR YE INDEED, BUT UNDERSTAND NOT; AND SEE YE INDEED, BUT PRECEIVE NOT.

Acts 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they de-parted, after that Paul had spoken one word, WELL SPAKE THE HOLY GHOST BY ESAIAS the prophet unto our fathers, 26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, HEARING YE SHALL HEAR, AND SHALL NOT UNDERSTAND; AND SEEING YE SHALL SEE, AND NOT PRECEIVE:

The Spirit in us is God in us, Christ in us.

Ephesians 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an HABI-TATION OF GOD through the SPIRIT.

I Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the HOLY GHOST [which is] in you, which ye have of GOD, and ye are not your own?

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the SPIRIT OF GOD dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if CHRIST BE IN YOU, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness. 11 But if the SPIRIT OF HIM THAT RAISED UP JESUS FROM THE DEAD dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Lying to the Holy Ghost is lying to God.

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to LIE TO THE HOLY GHOST, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not LIED unto men, BUT UNTO GOD.

God's Spirit and God's presence are the "thou," the being of God.

Psalms 139:7 Whither shall I go from THY SPIRIT? or whither shall I flee from THY PRESENCE? 8 If I ascend up into heaven, THOU ART THERE: if I make my bed in hell, behold, THOU ART THERE.

When the Spirit is sent forth, God is sent forth; the "thou," the being of God goes forth.

Psalms 104:30 Thou sendest forth THY SPIRIT, they are created: and THOU renewest the face of the earth.

God's Spirit is the breath of the Almighty.

Job 33:4 The SPIRIT OF GOD hath made me, and the BREATH OF THE ALMIGHTY hath given me life.

The Holy Ghost is the power of the Highest, is God.

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The HOLY GHOST shall come upon thee, and the POWER OF THE HIGHEST shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the SON OF GOD.

The Spirit of the Father is the Spirit of Christ.

Ephesians 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ, 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 THAT CHRIST MAY DWELL IN YOUR HEARTS by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love.

WHAT IS DIFFERENT ABOUT THE HOLY GHOST, SPIRIT OF TRUTH, MENTIONED IN JOHN 16:13 AND THE HOLY GHOST MENTIONED IN OTHER PLACES IN SCRIPTURE?

How is it that the Spirit in John 16:13 may be said to "not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:" but in other instances may be said to be incapable of being counseled or directed" (Isaiah 40:13). Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?

SPEAKING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AT DIFFERENT TIMES

When the Spirit is spoken of in the Old Testament times, the words HOLY SPIRIT refer, pure and simple, to the Spirit of God creating, acting, revealing, moving.

Acts 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, WELL SPAKE THE HOLY GHOST BY ESAIAS THE PROPHET UNTO OUR FATHERS,

Mark 12:36 For DAVID HIMSELF SAID BY THE HOLY GHOST, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

When the Spirit is spoken of in the New Testament prior to the Ascension, exaltation and glorification of Jesus Christ, the words HOLY SPIRIT my refer to those things which the Spirit does or did prior to the Ascension, exaltation and glorification of Jesus Christ, and therefore still refer pure and simple to the Spirit of God creat-ing, acting, revealing and moving.

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the HOLY GHOST.

When the words HOLY SPIRIT occur in the New Testament referring to the times after the Ascension, exaltation and glorification of Jesus Christ, the words HOLY SPIRIT may refer to the Spirit of the creator, acting and moving:

Romans 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who HATH been his counsellor?

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the HOLY GHOST: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye.

I Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the SPIRIT OF GOD calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the HOLY GHOST.

or the words HOLY SPIRIT my refer to the glorified Son of God acting in his human capacity;

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the SPIRIT OF TRUTH, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but WHATSOEVER HE SHALL HEAR, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, HE HATH SHED FORTH THIS, WHICH YE NOW SEE AND HEAR.

or the words HOLY SPIRIT my refer to the glorified Son of God acting in both his human and divine capacity:

Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead [you], and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, BUT THE HOLY GHOST.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.

There were several things different about the Spirit as spoken of in John 16:13 and the Spirit as spoken of in other places. Obvious differences include that the Spirit in John 16:13 was an inhabiter, that the Spirit in John 15:13 was the glorified Christ. A "creature capacity" was included in what the Holy Ghost was subsequent to Jesus' exaltation and glorification. Jesus, a creature, was made a "quickening Spirit," (I Corinthians 15:45).

I Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was MADE A QUICKENING SPIRIT.

There is still just one Spirit.

I Corinthians 12:13 For by ONE SPIRIT are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by ONE SPIRIT unto the Father.

Ephesians 4:4 [There is] one body, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

The on Spirit had both human and divine capacity.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the SPIRIT OF GOD dwell in you. Now if any man have not the SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he is none of his. 10 And if CHRIST BE IN YOU, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness. 11 But if the SPIRIT OF HIM THAT RAISED UP JESUS FROM THE DEAD dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Ephesians 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the FATHER OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by HIS SPIRIT in the inner man; 17 THAT CHRIST MAY DWELL IN YOUR HEARTS by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

VI. Why is it that Jesus in us, the Holy Ghost, the one Spirit of truth, is still referred to as having "human capacity," a being able to "speak not of himself," to speak only "what he hears"?

When Jesus Christ lived on earth, he had both human and divine capacities, was at the same time both God and man, Father and Son, prophetic enabler and prophet. Jesus Christ in the heart of believers may still act in human capacity, which he does when he makes intercession for us, when he "speaks what he hears," when he acts as high priest, when he mediates. The humanity of Jesus is absolutely essential to the salvation of the world. He will not be able to fully declare, reveal and manifest his true deity until the last soul is saved through his capacity as a human savior and redeemer.

By telling the disciples in John 16:13 that the inhabiting Spirit would not "speak of himself, but would speak what he hears," Jesus was telling them that there was unbroken continuity between his bodily presence with them and his spiritual presence in them. The Inhabiting Christ would still be "speaking what he hears." He would be acting in the prophet mode just as he also acted in the human lamb/sacrifice mode or in the mediatorial mode. His words would still be conveying the absolute words of God, of the Father. It would not be necessary for them to adjust to some new method of relating to or of listening to Jesus.

Does this mean that there are two persons in the believer? Again, the answer is no. Only one being inhabits the believer. That being is the glorified Christ. He is God; He is man.

There is only one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a MEDIATOR. 20 Now a MEDIATOR is not a MEDIATOR of one, but God is one.

I Timothy 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the MEDIATOR of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the MEDIATOR of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the MEDIATOR of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.

I John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an ADVOCATE with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

VIII. The scriptures by indiscriminate use of various names or appellations of the Spirit of God, support the idea that these names are actually ways in which we conceptualize the operations or capacities of the Spirit of God but do not show a distinction of a person.

The Spirit of God is generally agreed to be that aspect of God by which God interacts with the world and with men, through no such precise definition of the Spirit is given in the scripture. If true, the Spirit of God is God considered as acting, moving, speaking and enabling men. The Spirit enabled men to speak God's true words, to accomplish God's eternal purpose. Thus, Jesus was ENABLED by the eter-nal Spirit to offer himself a perfect sacrifice to God whereby his blood became efficacious.

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who THROUGH the ETERNAL SPIRIT offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

In the designation ETERNAL SPIRIT the acting, moving, enabling power is considered in the Spirit of God's most fundamental aspect, eternality. This aspect of the Spirit never changes. It was the Spirit of God which enabled Jesus the man to offer himself. It is the same Spirit of God which enables all men to know and to do those things necessary to accomplish the will of God.

Acts 21:4 And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul THROUGH THE SPIRIT, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye THROUGH THE SPIRIT do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Galatians 5:5 For we THROUGH THE SPIRIT wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

However, beyond being an eternal enabling Spirit, the Spirit also accomplishes directly those things necessary to carrying out God's eternal purpose. In these actions, both apart from men, and within men the Spirit is given various designations which are actually synonyms used interchangeably in scripture. The Spirit in the believer, God and man, eternalizes us by his divinity, intercedes for us by his humani-ty.

The terms, HOLY GHOST and POWER OF THE HIGHEST are used interchangeably and are synonyms for God.

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The HOLY GHOST shall come upon thee, and the POWER OF THE HIGHEST shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of GOD. [The Holy Ghost = the power of the Highest = God]

The terms, HOLY GHOST and SPIRIT are used interchangeably and refer to the Spirit which indwelt Jesus, led Jesus into the wilder-ness, and with which Jesus would baptize believers.

Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the HOLY GHOST returned from Jordan, and was led by the SPIRIT into the wilderness,

John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the SPIRIT descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the HOLY GHOST.

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the SPIRIT, which they that believe on him should receive: for the HOLY GHOST was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the HOLY GHOST, and began to speak with other tongues, as the SPIRIT gave them utterance.

I Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the SPIRIT OF GOD calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the HOLY GHOST. [The Holy Ghost = the Holy Spirit, the Spirit or the Spirit of God.]

The terms, HOLY GHOST and ONE SPIRIT are used interchangeably to designate the SPIRIT with which believers are baptized.

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST not many days hence.

I Corinthians 12:13 For by ONE SPIRIT are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by ONE SPIRIT unto the Father.

The terms Spirit of God and the Holy Ghost are used interchange-ably to designate the Spirit in the believers that enables truthful and prophetic speaking.

I Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the SPIRIT OF GOD calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by THE HOLY GHOST. [The Holy Ghost = the Spirit of God = The Spirit of Christ]

The terms SPIRIT OF GOD, THE HOLY GHOST, SPIRIT OF CHRIST and CHRIST IN YOU are used to designate the Spirit that inhabits believ-ers, enables believers to speak the truth of God, to walk in the Spirit, to be one of Christ's, and to have life in the Spirit.

I Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the SPIRIT OF GOD calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by THE HOLY GHOST.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the SPIRIT OF GOD dwell in you. Now if any man have not the SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness. [The Holy Ghost = the Spirit of God = The Spirit of Christ = Christ in you]

The terms LORD, GOD, and SPIRIT are used interchangeably to designate the Spirit, Lord and God who gives, administers and operates the gifts of the Spirit, who is also the baptizer, the Spirit that baptizes us all and the Spirit of which we all drink.

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY GHOST and with fire:

I Corinthians 12:13 For by ONE SPIRIT ARE WE ALL BAPTIZED into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into ONE SPIRIT.

I Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the SAME SPIRIT. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the SAME LORD.I Corinthians 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the SAME GOD which worketh all in all. [The Holy Ghost = the same Lord = the same God = the same Spirit]

The Spirit of God and the Holy Ghost are the one and the selfsame Spirit who divides gifts to each man as he wills.

I Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the SPIRIT OF GOD calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by THE HOLY GHOST.

I Corinthians 12:11 But all these worketh that ONE AND THE SELF SAME SPIRIT, dividing to every man severally as he will. [The Holy Ghost = the selfsame Spirit]

The Spirit of God, and the Holy Ghost and the Spirit of Christ are one and the same thing.

I Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the SPIRIT OF GOD calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by THE HOLY GHOST.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the SPIRIT, if so be that the SPIRIT OF GOD dwell in you. Now if any man have not the SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he is none of his. [The Holy Ghost = The Spirit of Christ]

The Holy Ghost whom the Father sends is the Spirit of the Son who is sent into the hearts of believers.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the HOLY GHOST, whom THE FATHER WILL SEND in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the SPIRIT OF HIS SON into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

The Holy Ghost is the Spirit that raised up Jesus from the dead and is also the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ.

I Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the SPIRIT OF GOD calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by THE HOLY GHOST.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the SPIRIT OF GOD dwell in you. Now if any man have not the SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he is none of his.

Romans 8:11 But if the SPIRIT OF HIM THAT RAISED UP JESUS FROM THE DEAD dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. [The Holy Ghost = the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus]

The Holy Ghost is the enabling Spirit who speaks truth with the disciples, is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Adoption.

I Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the SPIRIT OF GOD calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by THE HOLY GHOST.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the SPIRIT OF GOD, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the SPIRIT OF ADOPTION, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. [The Holy Ghost = The Spirit of Adoption]

Thus we see that the various designations for the Spirit of God do not designate different Spirits. These designations refer to the different capacities and identities that belong to the one Spirit who inhabits believers, moving, speaking and enabling the various operations of God in the human heart.

IX. Why is cryptic, enigmatic language used of the Father (and by implication, the Spirit)?

John 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: BUT THE TIME COMETH, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 AT THAT DAY ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

By speaking in proverbs, i.e. enigmatic language, Jesus was able to perform as a perfect man, a man in perfect relationship with the Creator. He was able to be "in all things like unto his brethren." In doing so, he avoided the sin of Lucifer, that of "grasping" God's prerogatives (Isaiah 14:14). even when he inhabits the believers, the glorified Christ, through truly the One god manifest in the flesh, still speaks and operates within the strictures placed upon him as a human being. he still "speaks what he hears."

When will intercession by the son, the mediation of the son, end?

When will subordination of the son, prophetic enablement of the son by the Father, human agency of the Son no longer be necessary?

When Jesus inhabits the believer, he still retains his human identity and capacity. It is Christ who is in us. He is our high priest.

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.

He operates as subordinate to the Father, and when he speaks, he speaks not of his own origination, he does "not speak of himself." but he is not only the prophet who speaks the words of another, he is the prophetic enabler as well. Jesus is also God himself, who supplies the words.

How long will this arrangement for the transfer of information from the Father to the Son be necessary? When will his absolute deity, his ultimate inheritance of all names titles and prerogatives of deity be complete?

Answer: The subordinate position, sonship, continues until ever enemy is destroyed.

Psalms 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool.

The word "until" in the above text is clear indication that the subordinate position, the "right-hand position," is not a permanent position. There will be a shift in position, a moving from the right-hand place to another place. One does not move from the right-hand place to the left-hand place. That would be a demotion. One does not move from the right-hand place to a position under the throne. That would be a humiliation. There is only one imaginable move from the right-hand place to the very throne itself. Of course, there is o actual move in space as the anthropomorphic expression, "right-hand," would cause us to conceive. rather than a space-position move, there will be and authority-position move. The son will inherit the Father's throne, the Father's prerogatives and the Father's identity. he will be revealed as God, all and in all.

QUESTION: What scriptures indicate that the ultimate designation of Christ as not only our Lord and our Christ but as our God and our Father will not occur until a designated time?

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government SHALL BE upon his shoulder: and his name SHALL BE called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The child has already been born and the son has already been given. Those are events of history. The future tense verb, shall be, in the above scripture is an indication of a progression of manifestation or revelation. Even though Jesus Christ was god from birth, Matthew 1:23, Lord from birth, Luke 1:35, never became other that what he already was, there is a definite time sequence to his ultimate revelation as the God and Father.

Jesus spoke in proverbs about the Father, indicating a time, a day when he would speak plainly.

John 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: BUT THE TIME COMETH, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 AT THAT DAY ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

At the designated time, the end, Jesus will be revealed as the "only potentate."

I Timothy 6:14 That thou keep [this] commandment without spot, unrebukeable, UNTIL THE APPEARING of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 WHICH IN HIS TIMES he shall shew, [who is] the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen.

ALL THINGS ARE SCHEDULED IN A TIME SEQUENCE.

Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of THIS PRESENT TIME [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature WAITETH for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Matthew 24:29 IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And THEN SHALL APPEAR the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, HEREAFTER shall ye see the SON OF MAN sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again UNTIL THE THOUSAND YEARS WERE FINISHED. This [is] the first resurrection. 7 And WHEN THE THOUSAND YEARS ARE EXPIRED, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

The above verses indicate that there are several things that must take place in a definite sequence of events. Most of these things are accomplished through Jesus Christ as man, as the Son of Man. These things relate to the exaltation of his church, the adoption of Spirit-filled believers as actual Sons of God, and the wrapping up of earth events including the destruction of the works of Satan, which God said would be accomplished by the "seed of the woman" (Genesis 3:15). Therefore, Jesus must continue to operate in the human genre, the subordinate relationship, the in-all-things-like-his-brethren state until he has accomplished his work as mediator, high priest, interces-sor, seed-of-woman conqueror of Satan.

Ultimately, the work of mediation will be accomplished and Christ's role as son will be replaced by his role as Father, although he never becomes not-a-man.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the FIRST HEAVEN AND THE FIRST EARTH WERE PASSED AWAY; and there was no more sea.

I Corinthians 15:24 THEN COMETH the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Revelation 21:1-7 reveals the time when Jesus will no longer be known as the subordinate, prophetically enabled Son of God. He will inherit the position of deity. At that time he will still be the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the giver of living water. Death will be eliminated, suffering, tears and pain will be forever wiped away, and there will be a new heaven and new earth. At that time, Jesus as God, Jesus Christ our brother reveals himself to be also our Everlasting Father.

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I WILL BE HIS GOD, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON.

I Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, THEN shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.

CONCLUSION: The words "For he shall not speak of himself," in John 16:13 refer to the inhabiting Spirit of the exalted Christ. Jesus continues to possess his human capacities as well as his divine capacities even while he inhabits believers. He operates as a man must operate in relation to God who is the enabler of men. Jesus is enabled to speak by the Spirit of God though he is God and man, Father and son, child-born, son-given and Mighty God - Everlasting father, prophetic enabler and prophet. He continues to speak as he spoke on earth, as a prophet and mouthpiece of God. "for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:"

XI. Summary of the evidence presented on John 16:13 referring to the Lord Jesus Christ as the inhabiter of believers who continues to "not speak of himself, but to speak that which he heareth."

1. Jesus in John 14:16-18 was speaking of himself and clearly stated so in John 14:18, "I will not leave you comfortless." A pattern is thus established by Jesus of the use of cryptic or enigmatic expressions regarding the Spirit as the coming inhabiter which when more closely examined reveal Jesus to be the inhabiting Spirit.
2. Jesus at his exaltation and glorification was "made a quickening Spirit." I Corinthians 15:45.
3. Jesus' being made a "quickening Spirit" did not cause the existence of more than one inhabiting Spirit. I Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-5.
4. The one inhabiting Spirit is called variously the Spirit of God, the spirit of Christ, the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead, the Spirit of the Lord, Christ in you, etc. I Corinthians 12:3, Romans 8:9-11, Ephesians 3:16-17, II Corinthians 3:17.
5. God's Spirit, in the state in which he existed prior to the exaltation, glorification and being a man who was "made a quickening spirit," could not be directed, counseled or in other ways made an agent of God (Isaiah 40:13).
6. Only after the exalted Christ was made a "quickening Spirit" could it be stated that the Spirit would "not speak of himself, but will speak only that which he hears."
7. There is a similar pattern in John 14:16-18 and John 16:11-16 of presenting information about the Spirit that is enigmatic and information which is plain, and then presenting clues which solve the enigmatic language presented.
8. It was Jesus' practice to speak of the Father, of God or of the Spirit in enigmatic language, postponing until another "time" the plain revelations about the Father. John 16:25-26, I Timothy 6:14-16, I Corinthians 15:28, Hebrews 2:6, Revelation 21:1-7.
9. The explanation that the one Spirit inhabiting disciples who only "speaks what he hears" is actually the glorified Christ as inhabiter, answers all the essential questions regarding the identity and at-tributes of the inhabiting Spirit.
10. Even though Jesus is God and inhabits believers, he still possesses human attributes, and mediates between God and man, mediates regarding man's salvation, and, through the eternal prophetically enabling spirit, mediates God's words to men. I Timothy 2:15.
11. The fact that the inhabiting spirit has both human and divine identity and capacity does not mean that there are two persons in Christ, or that there are two divine persons, or that there are two persons in the believers. John 10:30, John 12:45, John 14:7-9, John 8:19, Isaiah 9:6.

More ignornace and dishonesty from Ronald Day

Ronald Day again felt the need to answer my last posting on the subject of Jesus being made the one life giving spirit in answer to him on his Reslight Board, thanks in part to me sending an email to my" good friend " at the JW, John 1:1 yahoo group. whose initials are A .C. I am glad that Ronald answered but I was disappointed because as always there was nothing of substance but simply a denial of I what presented. I will not deal with the whole post but only those areas that Ronald seems to feel are substantive and where he has attempted my arguments. You can read his entire answers here Concerning the passage Eph 5:27: Which passage I will deal in another post

http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=195

January 22nd, 2009 by ResLight

Ronald Day:

One person claims that we are dishonest, evidently because we do not wish to join with him in assuming, adding to, and reading into any of the scriptures that Jesus is the Father,

mlculwell: How about start with believing the scriptures and take them for what they say? Jesus gave all concerning his human, sinless life and God gave all 0f his power and spirit by no measure unto him. (John 3:34, Math.28:18) I accused you of measuring the Spirit given and what did you do? You simply denied it with no argument and reasoned your way out of it, that is dishonesty and as it stands a weak argument.

Ronald Day:

and we endeavor to distinguish between doctrine added to the scriptures from what the scriptures actually do say. He further says that we are presenting same “weak” arguments of the JWs. In reality, although at times we may agree with some of the “arguments” presented by the JWs, we are not presenting the arguments of the JWs, weak or otherwise. Of course, claiming another’s argument as “weak” and “dishonest” does not necessarily mean that the arguments are actually “weak” or “dishonest”, since this tactic, that is, claiming the opposing argument is “weak”, “dishonest,” is often used as a decoy tactic, the usage of words to create an negative train of thought in the readers’ minds so as to discredit the opposing arguments in the minds of the readers.

mlculwell:I am claiming, and My initial claim was that Ronald was dishonest because he sees the passages I presented and offers no rebuttal, no answers to my charge but continually denies what I presented.What did I present? I had stated that the Spirit was given to the son by no measure unto him.(John 3:34) Was there one answer by Mr. Day refuting what I presented? NO! Over and over he simply denies my arguments, anybody in the first grade can do that, I can hear it now? Jesus was given the spirit by no measure as Ronald exclaims over and over "NO HE WAS NOT"!(To take away in any amount is measuring the spirit) that is how Ronald argues and expects me to buy it. The charge still stands. He measured the spirit given.

God the father is Spirit (John 4:24) God is Holy (Psalm 99:9, 1st. Peter 1:15) thus God the father is the Holy Spirit and it is his title in dealing with mankind and working in regeneration And is that which caused the conception in Mary making the Holy Spirit the father of the son Miraculously(Math. 1:19-21) That is the same Spirit that existed before the son and was given and was his deity on the earth and in heaven(it was his possession without measure) Jesus was made both lord and Christ from his mothers womb(John 3:34) because the son had a begging or origin. (Gal. 4:4)

Ronald Day:

On the other hand, the poster has presented not one scripture that says that Jesus, or any of the Bible writers, ever claimed that Jesus was his Father, or that he ever became his father, etc., but rather has presented a few scriptures that he wishes to add that idea to, and read that idea into, those scriptures. So it makes us wonder about who is really presenting the “weak” arguments.

mlculwell: Maybe Ronald will take his own advice and present a passage that shows us that he did not measure the spirit given as Jesus possession but I am so glad he gave me this opportunity to teach him something. All throughout the scripture we get little tidbit gems like the following that both Ronald Day and the Trinitarian's miss.

Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation (*he did not speak of himself*, or toot his own horn.) he thought it not robbery to be equal with God.(Verse 6) There is no equal to the One true God. Jesus was that *form* or image(God indwelt) of the Invisible God(Col. 1:15) the same that was asked:" Lord show us the father and it will satisfy us".(John 14:8) in which Jesus replied; he that hath seen me has seen the father(John 14:9) have I been so long time with you Philip and yet hast thou not known me? He that hath seen me hath seen the father and how sayest thou then show us the father? (he goes to say the father that dwells in him continually it is he that does the works John 14:10)

The spirit is the coming Jesus in spirit, the phrase *he shall not speak of himself *is a hint, letting us know the coming spirit is Jesus, Jesus uses the term he in reference to the coming spirit because he is not yet that coming spirit....

(John 14:10)the phrase again refers to the son becoming the spirit. Remember the passage *Howbeit when he the spirit of truth is come*? The spirit of truth was already there. Was he not?

The spirit was already with us but could not be in us until the spirit was purchased with Jesus Blood. Jesus called the spirit a he because the spirit was distinct from his flesh that both housed the spirit and was himself later after the passion(I (Jesus) will not leave you comfortless, (As fatherless orphans) I (Jesus)will come to you (as the spirit)(John 14:16-18,26, 1st.Cor.3: 17)


When Jesus walked the earth he was not yet the other comforter in the spirit but was still the first comforter in the flesh but he had not yet purchased for us to have that Spirit(John 7:38-39) The Holy Ghost was not yet given, for Jesus was not yet glorified. There still remained a distinction between the spirit(God)
and the flesh. For instance; Jesus did not know the time of his own
coming(Matt.24:36) as he was limited in knowledge, but the Spirit of
God who knew all things and revealed all things had not yet revealed them to his limited
humanity. Jesus discreetly claimed to be God the father as he stood before Caiaphas the high priest causing the priest to tear his own clothes and cry blasphemy. What caused such an uproar?
Jesus said that Caiaphas would personally see Jesus coming in the clouds of heaven standing on the right hand of power(Which the meaning of the right hand of God not a geographic Location of God's right side Matth. 26:64) The coming in clouds Caipahas recognized was reserved For Jehovah God alone as he came in judgement on the heathen nations all throughout the Old scriptures.


Ronald Day
Nor is it for us to present arguments that Jesus is not his Father, for the default assumption is that a son is not his father.

mlculwell: We do not make claim that "the son(Flesh) is his own father (Spirit)." We make claim as do the scriptures that since Jesus was given the spirit by no measure Which is the spirit of God the father in him(John 14:10) that was his own spirit by no measure in which you measure.

Other passages relating Jesus deity is that of the father:

You will die in your sins unless you believe I am he.(He who?) They understood not that he spake to them of the father.(John 8:24-27)

Ronald day:
Nevertheless, trying to address assumptions that are in the imaginations of men will always seem to be “weak” to those who believe those imaginative assumptions.