Did you Know that John Calvin formulated his doctrines and opinions on scripture texts after believing for One Year? Calvinists actually believe the Man is genius for doing so. No wonder the five points of the Tulip are such a mess......
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. (James 2:24)
It cannot get any clearer than the verse in James that good works are necessary for Christians to truly have the life that Jesus promises.
Common objections...
James is not speaking of salvation. But notice that the verse immediately preceding refers to Abraham's saving faith...
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. (James 2:23)
The book of James is hard to understand and therefore this verse should be ignored. In fact, Martin Luther wanted to remove this book from the Bible.
But the verse is actually easy to understand for those who accept Catholic teaching.
Shame on those Protestants...interpreting the Bible as their sole authority with preconceived doctrines.
John Calvin was never accepted by the Catholic Church in any sense, except as another sinner needing redemption.
His leading people into heresy and away from the Body of Christ has been one of the major heartaches for all good Catholic saints who have worked so hard through the centuries to repair the damage he has done to innumerable souls in cutting them off from Divine Grace through severance from the Church.
One saint in particular, St. Francis de Sales spent his life as a missionary, and subsequently as bishop of Geneva trying to reconvert (with great success) those who had been led astray.
The Jesuits were founded, as a religious order, specifically to help combat the heresy of Protestantism.
Michael,John Calvin showed himself to be as much a murderer and sinner by his fruit as did many of the Roman Catholics throughout history.
No person can do good works for their salvation. Real faith produces good works because of the Grace of God. Baptism is not a work that man does apart from the grace of God. Baptism in Jesus name is of grace, it is God given.
"The Church" is neither Catholic, or protestant! The Church is the Body of Christ.
Open your Bible to Acts 5:29-32... But Peter and the Apostles answered and said, "We must obey GOD rather than men...(32) and we are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom GOD has given to all who obey him."
Those verses are unmistakable that we have to do our part by obeying the commandments of GOD.
Then there is the dreaded (by Protestants) James 2:14-26 which starts with (14) "What will it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but does not have Works?
Can the faith save him?...(17) So faith too, unless it has Works, is dead in itself...(20) Faith without Works is useless...(21)
Was not Abraham our father justified by Works when he offered up Isaac his son upon the altar? (22) Do you not see that Faith worked along with his Works, and by the Works the faith was made perfect?...(24)
You see that by Works a man is justified, and not by faith only....(26) For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so, Faith also without Works is Dead." 'Subjective Salvation' in action, is shown for that whole section written by St. James.
I could go on and on with verses like this, and could ask questions such as, why is there a need for the ten commandments, since we are 'automatically saved'? I think you get the message from what I have shown.
Read Matthew 25:31:46. It is all about doing good works in this life. Then there is Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from Heaven saying, 'Write: blessed are the dead who die in the Lord henceforth. Yes, says the Spirit, let them rest from their labors, for their works follow them.'"
Is that clear enough that works are needed in addition to faith? Still not convinced? Then how about another crystal clear verse? Revelation 22:12, "Behold, I come quickly! And My reward is with Me, to render to each one according to his works."
I must call it to your attention that the Bible mentions Faith Only, once and only once, in one verse, and in that verse it says NOT by Faith Only. (James 2:24)
Acts 5:29-32... But Peter and the Apostles answered and said, "We must obey GOD rather than men...(32) and we are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom GOD has given to all who obey him."
The above is truth! what is not truth is obeying your Popes traditions and making them equal to the words of God!
Those verses are unmistakable that we have to do our part by obeying the commandments of GOD.
yes we do! We are not talking about willy nilly works apart from christ.
Jesus said: if you being evil know how to give good gifts to your children how much more shall your heavenly father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Really? So God calls men evil who are doing good works? We are talking about the works given by grace that are required faith and the works we do to show our faith which you nor the protestants understand and i reject both your teachings!
How many sides are there to a story? If you say two, then you are wrong. If you had one side and I had one side that would make two sides. However, there is a third side, the side of truth.
Rule # 1... One half of truth does not a truth make. Neither does one half of a story make the full story.
No intelligent person can hear one side of a story and decide which side has the truth.
Both sides have to be heard, then analysed, and then a decision has to be made as to which side (if either) has a valid story, and after that, the right side(s), or truth side, can be determined.
This thinking holds true for discerning what Holy Scripture tells us.
Throughout the Bible there are double standards, yet the fundamentalist thinking shows only one standard, or one side of the story, or only one half of the truth.
Their thinking is in violation of rule # 1. With only one half of truth, you do not have truth. Anything less than the whole truth is error.
In the following examples, side 'A' is the first side, side 'B' is the second, and side 'C' is the right, or truth side.
Example # 2... Sola Fides... Saved by faith alone. The fundamentalist believes he is assured of salvation. All he has to do is to accept Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and savior and salvation is automatic and irrevocable no matter what he does for the rest of his life.
Oh Yeah? What happened to the ten commandments?
mlculwell: Your side is dishonest! I do not believe in example #2 or sola fide!
Just who are you having a discussion with? It is not me that you are having discussion?
I do not believe you must accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior the way in which it is taught By Churches today!
You cannot set up arguments that I do not espouse and proceed to knock them down.
I do not believe in the popular idea taught in churches to accept Jesus in your heart by saying a prayer and it is done. That idea Bypasses the grace of God namely what he has given us in Acts 2:38.
If you proceed to give me arguments I do not espouse and proceed to knock them Down I will no longer post your comments but will ignore you!
In the middle of the third century, Sabellius was excommunicated and declared a heretic because of proposing the idea that there was only one "person" in the Godhead manifesting himself in different offices: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
mlculwell: SO? Your Your Churches first popes(Zephenirus and Calistus) were Oneness who fell away from the truth and became Catholic popes!
Michael This heresy was named Sabellianism (and later modalism) after him, though the heretical doctrine did not last for very long.
mlculwell: I am really glad you you called him a Heretic because it makes me love him even more! The Catholic Church or any trinitarain calling somebody a Heretic means zero to mean it is Like the kettle calling the pot black.
Michael: Private interpretation of Scriptures can be exceedingly harmful to self and others.
mlculwell: Then you better tell your pope to stop doing it then! You are so full of nonsense and hypocrisy.
Michael: This has divided Christianity into hundreds if not tens of thousands of segments.
mlculwell: Starting with your false church as the beginning of the division with your daughters the protestants. We are the Original church, you are not but only make that claim!
Too many individuals claim their position is right and are unwilling to freely discuss the position taken or to be submissive to moral authorities.
Holding to a personal position, or one of heretical source, places one's eternal soul in jeopardy. Such people often become instruments that lead others to perdition.
Neither is there salvation in ANY OTHER, for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.(Acts 4:12) What name is that? Is it father? father is a title Not a name!
We were told by Jesus himself to Go baptize in the one singular name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Ghost.(Matth.28:19)
Jesus is the fulfillment of that only one singular name given among men under heaven, there is no other.
Peter said to Go Baptize in that name and he was given the K eyes to the kingdom.(Acts 2:38)
Do you believe Peter would willfully disobey the Lord? Of course not he did Just what the Lord told him to do!
Jesus prayers in the examples you gave were under the Law and the New covenant had not yet come in to being and those hearing did not know that Jesus was who he said he was, he came to full fill the law as he was still under the law, it took his death burial and resurrection to bring about the new covenant in his name!
10 comments:
Not Saved by Faith Only
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. (James 2:24)
It cannot get any clearer than the verse in James that good works are necessary for Christians to truly have the life that Jesus promises.
Common objections...
James is not speaking of salvation. But notice that the verse immediately preceding refers to Abraham's saving faith...
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. (James 2:23)
The book of James is hard to understand and therefore this verse should be ignored. In fact, Martin Luther wanted to remove this book from the Bible.
But the verse is actually easy to understand for those who accept Catholic teaching.
Shame on those Protestants...interpreting the Bible as their sole authority with preconceived doctrines.
John Calvin was never accepted by the Catholic Church in any sense, except as another sinner needing redemption.
His leading people into heresy and away from the Body of Christ has been one of the major heartaches for all good Catholic saints who have worked so hard through the centuries to repair the damage he has done to innumerable souls in cutting them off from Divine Grace through severance from the Church.
One saint in particular, St. Francis de Sales spent his life as a missionary, and subsequently as bishop of Geneva trying to reconvert (with great success) those who had been led astray.
The Jesuits were founded, as a religious order, specifically to help combat the heresy of Protestantism.
Michael,John Calvin showed himself to be as much a murderer and sinner by his fruit as did many of the Roman Catholics throughout history.
No person can do good works for their salvation. Real faith produces good works because of the Grace of God. Baptism is not a work that man does apart from the grace of God. Baptism in Jesus name is of grace, it is God given.
"The Church" is neither Catholic, or protestant! The Church is the Body of Christ.
Dear Mlculwell,
Open your Bible to Acts 5:29-32... But Peter and the Apostles answered and said, "We must obey GOD rather than men...(32) and we are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom GOD has given to all who obey him."
Those verses are unmistakable that we have to do our part by obeying the commandments of GOD.
Then there is the dreaded (by Protestants) James 2:14-26 which starts with (14) "What will it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but does not have Works?
Can the faith save him?...(17) So faith too, unless it has Works, is dead in itself...(20) Faith without Works is useless...(21)
Was not Abraham our father justified by Works when he offered up Isaac his son upon the altar? (22) Do you not see that Faith worked along with his Works, and by the Works the faith was made perfect?...(24)
You see that by Works a man is justified, and not by faith only....(26) For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so, Faith also without Works is Dead." 'Subjective Salvation' in action, is shown for that whole section written by St. James.
I could go on and on with verses like this, and could ask questions such as, why is there a need for the ten commandments, since we are 'automatically saved'? I think you get the message from what I have shown.
Read Matthew 25:31:46. It is all about doing good works in this life. Then there is Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from Heaven saying, 'Write: blessed are the dead who die in the Lord henceforth. Yes, says the Spirit, let them rest from their labors, for their works follow them.'"
Is that clear enough that works are needed in addition to faith? Still not convinced? Then how about another crystal clear verse? Revelation 22:12, "Behold, I come quickly! And My reward is with Me, to render to each one according to his works."
I must call it to your attention that the Bible mentions Faith Only, once and only once, in one verse, and in that verse it says NOT by Faith Only. (James 2:24)
Acts 5:29-32... But Peter and the Apostles answered and said, "We must obey GOD rather than men...(32) and we are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom GOD has given to all who obey him."
The above is truth! what is not truth is obeying your Popes traditions and making them equal to the words of God!
Those verses are unmistakable that we have to do our part by obeying the commandments of GOD.
yes we do! We are not talking about willy nilly works apart from christ.
Jesus said: if you being evil know how to give good gifts to your children how much more shall your heavenly father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Really? So God calls men evil who are doing good works? We are talking about the works given by grace that are required faith and the works we do to show our faith which you nor the protestants understand and i reject both your teachings!
Dear Mlculwell,
Is Half of The Story Sufficient For Salvation?
How many sides are there to a story? If you say two, then you are wrong. If you had one side and I had one side that would make two sides. However, there is a third side, the side of truth.
Rule # 1... One half of truth does not a truth make. Neither does one half of a story make the full story.
No intelligent person can hear one side of a story and decide which side has the truth.
Both sides have to be heard, then analysed, and then a decision has to be made as to which side (if either) has a valid story, and after that, the right side(s), or truth side, can be determined.
This thinking holds true for discerning what Holy Scripture tells us.
Throughout the Bible there are double standards, yet the fundamentalist thinking shows only one standard, or one side of the story, or only one half of the truth.
Their thinking is in violation of rule # 1. With only one half of truth, you do not have truth. Anything less than the whole truth is error.
In the following examples, side 'A' is the first side, side 'B' is the second, and side 'C' is the right, or truth side.
Example # 2... Sola Fides... Saved by faith alone. The fundamentalist believes he is assured of salvation. All he has to do is to accept Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and savior and salvation is automatic and irrevocable no matter what he does for the rest of his life.
Oh Yeah? What happened to the ten commandments?
mlculwell:
Your side is dishonest! I do not believe in example #2 or sola fide!
Just who are you having a discussion with? It is not me that you are having discussion?
I do not believe you must accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior the way in which it is taught By Churches today!
You cannot set up arguments that I do not espouse and proceed to knock them down.
I do not believe in the popular idea taught in churches to accept Jesus in your heart by saying a prayer and it is done. That idea Bypasses the grace of God namely what he has given us in Acts 2:38.
If you proceed to give me arguments I do not espouse and proceed to knock them Down I will no longer post your comments but will ignore you!
Dear mlculwell,
In the middle of the third century, Sabellius was excommunicated and declared a heretic because of proposing the idea that there was only one "person" in the Godhead manifesting himself in different offices: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
mlculwell: SO? Your Your Churches first popes(Zephenirus and Calistus) were Oneness who fell away from the truth and became Catholic popes!
Michael
This heresy was named Sabellianism (and later modalism) after him, though the heretical doctrine did not last for very long.
mlculwell: I am really glad you you called him a Heretic because it makes me love him even more! The Catholic Church or any trinitarain calling somebody a Heretic means zero to mean it is Like the kettle calling the pot black.
Michael:
Private interpretation of Scriptures can be exceedingly harmful to self and others.
mlculwell: Then you better tell your pope to stop doing it then! You are so full of nonsense and hypocrisy.
Michael:
This has divided Christianity into hundreds if not tens of thousands of segments.
mlculwell: Starting with your false church as the beginning of the division with your daughters the protestants. We are the Original church, you are not but only make that claim!
Too many individuals claim their position is right and are unwilling to freely discuss the position taken or to be submissive to moral authorities.
Holding to a personal position, or one of heretical source, places one's eternal soul in jeopardy. Such people often become instruments that lead others to perdition.
My audio debate with Limey Bob of the UK
Oneness versus trinity debate
http://www.mediafire.com/?8ydnuutfcp
Neither is there salvation in ANY OTHER, for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.(Acts 4:12)
What name is that? Is it father? father is a title Not a name!
We were told by Jesus himself to Go baptize in the one singular name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Ghost.(Matth.28:19)
Jesus is the fulfillment of that only one singular name given among men under heaven, there is no other.
Peter said to Go Baptize in that name and he was given the K eyes to the kingdom.(Acts 2:38)
Do you believe Peter would willfully disobey the Lord? Of course not he did Just what the Lord told him to do!
Jesus prayers in the examples you gave were under the Law and the New covenant had not yet come in to being and those hearing did not know that Jesus was who he said he was, he came to full fill the law as he was still under the law, it took his death burial and resurrection to bring about the new covenant in his name!
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