James White writes the following from his book The Forgotten Trinity
Chapter 12 pg 171 A Closer Look
James writes: "There are three kinds of beings who are personal:God,
men, and Angels. I have being ,I exist, Yet I am personal.My being is
personal and finite.It is limited to one place geographically
speaking,and one time temporarily speaking."
There are more gems from this book but this is damning enough to ask; where does Jesus
stand in this? Will anyone come to Jame's defense? I cannot wait to dig out more .
Which Being Is Jesus? Is he the being of man, or the being of God, or
the new being of both?
I ask this question because James is Caught in a dilemma with his doctrine He quotes on the same page;" the divine being( God) is One"( being) the divine(God) persons are (shared by) three" (persons.)( parenthesis are mine)
Which Being Is Jesus humanity? Is he the being of man, or the being of God, or
the new being of both? Humanity most definitely is being. This contradicts White in his book.
To be fair I submitted this critique on my debate group and received the following reply from a Trinitarian.
"The content of the quotation you included does not directly deal with this question, as Mr. White's point is not to consider the relation of the human to the divine in Jesus but to demonstrate that there is a 'personal' aspect of God and angels and humans.
Notwithstanding that, there is nothing directly in this quotation that would preclude Jesus from being located within its categories.
If you supplied the surrounding context it would probably present a far better overview of Mr. White's thinking along this particular argument".
I will do just that!
James writes on page 158 -160 How that Jesus is One person with two natures. James continues "he is not two persons nor are his natures somehow mixed together."
Very good, that gives us something to work with. What I do not see in all of Jame's book is an answer to these important question. Natures do not die, people die!
At the outset James stated; "he was one being", is not Jesus real humanity a being? He simply never says in his book, that I can see. (James makes an attempt in pages 66-70) of his book but nothing really meaningful. God is One Being, Jesus is a real human being, thus in my estimation we have two beings, "one of these things are not like the other." to quote the ol Sesame street song. We do not have two beings of God, we also do not have two of the same beings, we have one human being, and one being of God. In the incarnation, if true, we have two beings, but not two persons, God is not a person , persons die...When Jesus died as to his real humanity the being of God did not die, God cannot die. The Trinitarian view of Jesus would be a new being. Just because you equivocate with the copout of natures does not excuse us of answering these questions that are important. I believe the trinitarian view of being and person is weak and showcase those weak areas of thier doctrine especially since Dr. White is the contemporary Authority on the subject.
7 comments:
Your critique has a fatal flaw. You fail to understand what a "being" is and what a "person" is. These are not terms that are synonyms.
The definition of being: What makes SOMETHING what it is.
The definition of person: What makes SOMEONE who they are.
A grasp of these terms will serve you greatly in your critique of Dr. White's book.
I am both a human being and a person so is Jesus. You dishonestly cannot admit that otherwise your doctrine is polytheism(Too many beings for the trinity) That fatal flaw is your doctrine and James Whites doctrine the trinity is just plain contradictory...
Faithful Witness has left a new comment on your post " The first six questions of 60 questions on the Go...":
"Jesus was both a real 100% human being and the real 1oo% being Known as God."
This is absolutely illogical. He (meaning the Son of God) was FULLY God and FULLY man. That is to say, He is fully God as to His divine nature, and fully man as to His human nature. This is what the orthodox doctrine of the hypostatic union (and for that matter the bible) teaches (council of chalcedon 451AD).
God cannot die,but as a man he could and he did. He purchased the church with his own blood!!Jesus is not a body God filled. He is the God-man! The Son of the living God!!The Word (He) became flesh!! The very one who thru the Father created all things (the Son)! When Jesus prayed it was Jesus speaking when Jesus was hungry it was Jesus that was hungry.And when he died it was Jesus that died for the sins of the world! To deny this is to deny the Son! Father glorify me with the Glory I had with you before the world was!The Father sent, the Son saves,and the Spirit seals!What a GOD!!! Thru out your bible the Son IS!For no one has ever seen God at anytime the Son does the declaring for he is the same one walking in the fire in Daniel! For there are 3 that bear record in heaven Father,Word,Holy Ghost and these 3 are 1 God! God dont change my friend He always was! 1 Elohim in old testamen,1 Elohim in new testament! Jesus did not robe himself in flesh, He BECAME flesh!! Thru out the entire old testament HE is there! John the baptist declares HE is before me.According to your own bible the Revelation of who God is,is truely revealed to us in new testament! Who do you say that I am,Thou art the Christ the Son of the living God! Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my Father who is in heaven. The sriptures declare we have 1 God Father,Son,Spirit!!! God is unchangeable! God purchased the church with his own blood,thru his Son the Lord Jesus Christ!! Glory to his name!
Yes God cannot die You are correct as a man he did die how we both view that is where we part ways. You make no distinction in his humanity and have new hybrid species of neither God nor man but Give lip service only to that fact.
Yes God purchased the church with his own Blood(The son! not "god the son" what is your point! There is no god the fictitious son in scripture.
No Jesus did not robe himself in flesh! Jesus was God manifest in flesh, the image of the invisible God(Col.1:18) There is your distinction. Jesus is the flesh(Seen as son) of the invisible God(Not seen) who revealed himself in the son. You see the son because there is no "god the son"!
There is no distinction between his humanity. HE (the Word) became flesh what dont you understand bout that? He is the GOD-Man!Natures dont talk,persons do. This dual nature doctrine you teach is crazy in its definition. When was the last time your father nature talked to your son nature? I think never. Would you say its my dual natures talking to each other? Crazy stuff man! Well that is what your teaching makes Jesus out to be. His human nature talking to his father nature. Natures dont love each other,persons do! When Jesus spoke you better believe it,it was Jesus talking! He emptied himself and become a man (Phil 2 ) He (the WORD ) made flesh! Thats in your bible! You say the Word was just a (thought or plan) wow! For God so loved the world He gave his only Thought or plan or flesh that who ever believes in 1 of these 3 will have life? NO He gave his only SON the GOD-Man! Paul tells us that He made the world THRU the SON! Wow how can that be when the Son (Word) is not even real but just a Plan? John 1:3 confirms that ALL things were made thru HIM and without HIM nothing was made!!The WORD you say was just the Plan, my bible says was Jesus In The Beginning!! Hebrews 1:2 also confirms in my bible that in these last days HE has spoken to us by HIS,SON thru WHOM also HE made the world!!How can this be when Jesus was nothing but a plan back then? Crazy stuff man! God was manifested in the flesh we agree but where we part will be who manifested in the flesh.My bible declares the WORD that created all things (the SON) was made flesh! In Him (Jesus) dwells the full Godhead in Body! That confirms His diety also confirms His full God-Man nature in Body. Paul is confirming to the saints that Christ is Diety!! This dual nature doctrine is never taught in scripture and Jesus was not a actor from Hollywood.When HE spoke it was simply Jesus the God-Man speaking when the Father spoke it was simply the Father speaking!Jesus never at anytime seperated himself from the Son of God or Son of Man,Why? Thats who He was! Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever!! He is the First and the Last! God created everything that is thru the Son!There are 3 that bear record Father Son Spirit they are 1 Elohim!!!! Be very careful with definitions or natures of the SON for John tells us that to DENY the Father and SON is the spirit of antichrist.And I can see why cause it totlally strips Christ from who He is! The Son of the Living God! And I can proclaim with authority of Gods word that God created all things THRU HIs SON!! And its the BLOOD of the Lamb of God (the SON) that flowed at Clavary (God-Man) and to deny this is very dangerous!Who do you say that I am?? Jesus was all and fully Jesus the WORD that created all things! Natures DONOT talk to each other,only persons do! Take the Word of God as it is, THE WORD OF TRUTH!!! God Bless
There is no distinction between his humanity and deity???? To deny Jesus was a real man was just as bad as denying his real Divinity... This is why I say The trinity version of Jesus is a hybrid: neither God, nor man, but something new. Your Jesus cannot be our kinsmen redeemer.
The word was not a person known as Jesus. If the word/logos Where Jesus the son we would have been told so. John never calls the word the son or Jesus. The word is spoken power of God.(Psalm 99:9)
The word is both with and is God because the word pertains to God. God is not God without his word.
Again I have said absolutely nothing about a dual nature and you are correct my natures do not converse with one another. Also natures do not die people die But god was not a person but spirit that is why we say there is one person of God because the person and flesh of Jesus is the only person of God Never to die again as God in flesh.
Philipians 2: is not about a pre-existent Jesus known as God the son it is incarnation-al. Your version is polytheistic As you have God equal to God in verse 5. Tell me How God can be equal to God unless there are two to be equal your doctrine is silly nonsesne.
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