In laudem gloriae gratiae Christi
"Invitation to Manuel Culwell to debate me instead of TF"
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mlculwell said... A certain Manuel Culwell has posted a debate challenge to Calvinist blogger Turretinfan in the comment box of this post.
mlculwell: A certain? How many of me are there? LOL!
The debate challenge relates to the topic of the Trinity, and Turretinfan has declined. I have offered to refute whatever critique of the Trinity Culwell posts here.
mlculwell:Yeah, I have a lot actually!
I'm not interested so much in a formal debate, but I will certainly refute his One Person Who Is A Hypocrite Wearing Three Masks doctrine.
mlculwell: What? Without even hearing what I believe the scriptures teach? I have not even begun and you are making arguments that you have heard from your Apologists, If you have invited me here to debate then you should allow me to make my own arguments.I have a regular debate group where it is more free.
We can hash it out right here in the comment box of this post for which reason I will only publish comments on this post by myself and Culwell. If others comment on this post, it will just be like sending me an email.
mlculwell: Okay, that will work for now. I deleted the part concerning Calvinism, I am not interested and I am not a calvinist.
I doubt that Culwell is interested in debating TF on the moral nature of the Trinity, however. Culwell's merely seeks to prove that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all one person, which is a wholly unsupportable position.
mlculwell:That is not my main point or position, I have debated that issue many times and it actually is supported by scripture. The problem lays within the limited term "person" that you want to use for God, we can hash that out but that is not the main issue.
Certainly we agree that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God.
mlculwell: Yes! I am a father, I am a son, and I am a husband. Those are three relationship titles I have toward my family but I am not "three persons" and neither is God. Let us be clear though, I am not my own father, nor am I my own son. Neither is Jesus, we as Oneness people refer to Jesus as the Father because his deity is the Father and his deity was in the human son doing the works and miracles (John 14:10)THE FATHER IN ME HE DOETH THE WORKS.
The son is the humanity, that which is 1oo% man and died, and could do no in and of himself.(John 5:30) I can of mine own self do nothing. the Father is that which is 100% God and could not die. There is no such thing in scripture anywhere of a "God the son."
The Holy Ghost(Spirit) Is God's(The father's) title as he deals with mankind. God is Spirit(John 4:24) God is Holy(Psalm 99:9, 1st. Peter 1:15) Thus God is the Holy Spirit. The father of the Child Jesus.(Math. 1:20-21)That which is conceived in Mary is of the Holy Ghost. This is not exhaustive but enough to get us rolling in a discussion.
But I believe the Scriptural position that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, although three distinct persons (distinct but not separate) are one God.
mlculwell:How many persons are Jesus, since he was both God and man? Was he a new species? was he a being was he two beings? Do persons die?
Another possible difference between myself and TF on the doctrine of the Trinity is that I do not accept the false notion so common among Protestants today that the eternal co-equality of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost relates to position rather than essence. When Jesus says "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30) he means one in nature, not in position. Otherwise, he could not later say "my Father is greater than I." (John 14:28) What we see then is that the Son is subject to the Father in position (as the very names imply) although they are equal in essence or substance.
mlculwell: Very good! But The son was subject to the Father because he was a real man, Of course, I do not believe Trinitarians believe that, the most I can get from them to admit is; he is 100% man and they refuse to go further... God cannot be subject to God in any way shape or form, otherwise we have two God's and polytheism.
I am not arguing that the Son is not equal in authority to the Father now, but that it has not always been so nor will be so:
mlculwell: "The son" in his humanity was made equal(Philippians 2:6) because he was given the spirit without measure(John 3:34)the last MAN Adam was made the Life giving Spirit(1st. Cor. 15:45) as he was not already, he could not be because his humanity had a beginning...
certainly now that Christ has been glorified, he is equal in position to the Father, for he says after the resurrection in Matthew 28:18 "All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth." Yet, 1st Corinthians 15:24 clearly states that at the end of time, Jesus will deliver up the kingdom to God the Father.
mlculwell; Jesus delivers up the kingdom to the father(God)as human son.(Ephesians 5:27) states That he might present it to himself a Glorious Ekklesia. He simply puts down his rule as son and is only known as God, the Only God you or I will ever see of the invisible God(John 1:18,5:37,1st. Tim.1:17,6:14-16) will be beaming through the Eyes of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eternal co-equality, then, is shown to not relate to position but to essence, which I think disproves some Calvinist creed somewhere because I always hear them confusing essence and position and being false-accusers against those who speak accurately concerning the Trinity.
Posted by beowulf2k8 at 2:06 PM 0 comments
Manuel Culwell: Thank you for the opportunity for the discussion.
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