John 1 personal pronoun “he” Is retrospective

 

 The phrase with God" can mean God's own Word, his wisdom, plan and self-expression, which was with him in eternity and became flesh in v. 14. Then there's no second God and no second person, only God and his own Word.

“He “ is retrospective 

the retrospective reading. John writes after the incarnation, so he uses "he" for the Word the way we say "Lincoln was born in a log cabin," naming the person for what he became. It also ties back to Romans 4:17, since God speaks of the Word as already there before it was manifest. His name is called the word of God. 

Let’s throw John 16:28 in there also? I came forth from the Father. 

But first,

All things were made by him" (1:3): Once more The Word is the agent  “through “ “for” “by”  and “of “ creation.  

By the Logos of God/ Lord were the heavens made and all the  host of them by the breath of his mouth. Psalm 33:6 

Jesus said Father the same exact way you sent me into the world even so have I sent these Apostles into the world.  

Jesus no more  was pre-existing than the disciples were pre-existing. If you are going to  say Jesus pre-existed because he was “sent into the world “

well  you will also have to say the disciples were sent into the world the same exact way and pre-existed! 

1 John 1:2 

Once more” he “ is Retrospective and forward looking . Eternal life comes only  through Jesus’s death burial and resurrection  not some second god person.

Read  Titus 1:2 God "promised" eternal life "before the world began." It was a promise held in God's purpose, not a person standing beside him

 2 Timothy 1:9-1 Grace "given us in Christ Jesus before the world began" is "now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death." It was in God's plan, then manifested, which matches 1 John 1:2 ("was manifested unto us").

My position on the Logos is that  the Logos cannot be taken from God and is always with God as his power through speech.  Probably why your early trinitarian in the first five English bibles and those scholars chose to call the word  an “it.” Instead of “he”  I am not willing to do that! Because, it is apart of God and is God . But to teach the word is god jr with god sr well ,nothing doing !It is a  pagan  polytheistic  view  Of John 1 and the reading proves it!  The glory “I “

had (as personal pronoun)  does nothing. Jesus said the disciple were sent from God the exact same way he was. So according to trinity doctrine   they pre-existed!  We are dealing with spiritual language and trinity  proof-texts in a vacuum isolation does not prove what they think it does . Once more the Logos is  always with God and is God as his Speech to creat, heal, and even destroy.   

The sword  from his mouth imagery (Rev. 19:15, 19:21, Heb. 4:12, Eph. 6:17, Isa. 49:2) adds to this. The Word is shown as an expression and power that proceeds out of God's mouth, so it is God's own action and not something standing beside him.

Rev.19:13 His name (Jesus) is called the word of God. Like his name is called the mighty God and the everlasting Father. Isa. 9:6. 

Rev. 19:15: "And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."

Rev. 19:21: "And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."

Heb. 4:12: "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

Eph. 6:17: "And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God." I purposely don’t give everything and trinitarians go and consistently grabs things that don’t help them,  like you did. 

Isa. 49:2: "And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me."

In Heb. 4:12 and Eph. 6:17, the word of God as a sword is spoken truth and judgment, not a person. That supports my  point that the sword in Rev. 19 is judgment speech. Isa. 49:2 also gives the image in prophecy, where the servant's mouth is made like a sword before he is revealed.

And Even More On Before The Foundation of the World.

 Election and the Book of Life: A Study

Oct 16, 2026 · @Manuel Culwell

Election is "in Christ," and the names written in the book of life from the foundation of the world are the faithful, from before Abraham through Moses and on to us, not a list of individuals fixed apart from faith.

This study works from Ephesians 1, Revelation 5:6 and 13:8, and Hebrews 11, and notes where a Calvinist reader would push back.

Ephesians 1: chosen in him

Paul says the church was chosen "in him" (v. 4), so election is union with Christ, the Elect One, not a pick of individuals who are then placed in him.

Faith comes before the sealing. Verse 13 says that after hearing the gospel and trusting, you were sealed. Trust is named first.

What was predestined is the destination. Holiness, adoption, and conformity to Christ's image (Eph. 1:4-5; Rom. 8:29). The text names the outcome, not which individuals get it.

One people, chosen in one person. Like Israel as a chosen nation, you are among the elect by being in the Elect One.

Revelation 5:6 and 13:8: the Lamb and the book

The Lamb was slain "from the foundation of the world" (13:8), so God's provision for salvation was settled before creation. ( So say Calvinist interpretation) The plan began at the cross, not with a list of names.

The sacrifice is broad. The Lamb's blood purchased people "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" (5:9). First John 2:2 calls him the propitiation for the whole world.

Names can be removed. God tells Moses he will blot out of his book whoever has sinned (Ex. 32:33), and Rev. 3:5 promises the overcomer's name will not be blotted out. A name that can be erased was not unconditionally fixed.

The grammar is disputed. "From the foundation" may attach to "written" or to "slain." Both readings are argued, so this study does not rest on the grammar alone.

Hebrews 11: the faithful before the law

Hebrews 11 is a roll call of people commended for their faith: Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, and others, most of them living before the law was given.

Faith is their own response. Each verse reads "by faith" and names what the person did.

One people, made complete together. Verses 39-40 say they did not receive the promise apart from "us," so the faithful of every age are brought to completion together in Christ.

Warnings assume real choice. The same book warns believers against falling away (6:4-6; 10:26-29).

The names: the faithful from before Abraham to Moses

The names written from the foundation are the faithful before and after Abraham, up to Moses, who died before the law was in full effect. This puts a record of faith at the start, not a pre-creation list of unconditionally chosen people.

"From the foundation" can mark a starting point in history. Luke 11:50-51 uses it for the blood of Abel, the first righteous man killed.

It can mean a finished work. Hebrews 4:3 uses it for God's works completed at creation.

Faith was already counted as righteousness. Abraham was justified by faith before the law (Rom. 4), and the law came 430 years later and did not cancel the promise (Gal. 3:17).

The Lamb covered them in advance. Hebrews 11:39-40 says they waited for "us," and Rev. 13:8 says the Lamb was slain from the foundation.

Revelation 17:8: the verse to answer

Calvinists say Revelation 17:8 proves a closed list, because it speaks of those whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. I say the names not written are people who did not trust God, and the examples are right there before the law.

Revelation 17:8

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

The ones who wonder after the beast are the ones not written. Revelation 13:8 says the same: they worship the beast. That is a choice, not a decree.

Those before the law who did not believe.

Cain, who did not offer in faith like Abel (Heb. 11:4).

The people who drowned in the flood.

Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing... (1 Peter 3:20)

Lot's wife, who looked back.

Remember Lot's wife. (Luke 17:32)

Those who came out of Egypt with Moses and died in the wilderness.

Hebrews 3:16-19

For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

(Unbelief is what kept them out, not a list written before they were born.)

Note to self: a Calvinist will say God never wrote these names, and their unbelief followed. Decide how I answer that, since Scripture does not say these names were written and then removed. Also leave King Saul out of this list, because he lived under the law, not before it.

Other Calvinist texts to answer

These are the passages a Calvinist reader will raise, with what each is used to claim.

Text	Used to claim
Eph. 1:5, 11	Predestination is by God's good pleasure and counsel, so it is individual and unconditional
Romans 9	God chooses Jacob over Esau and has mercy on whom he wills
John 6:37-44	All the Father gives come to Christ, and none can come unless drawn
Acts 13:48	As many as were appointed to eternal life believed

My argument

Calvinists take "before the foundation of the world" literally and will not give it the same latitude they give everywhere else. Here is where I stand.

Chosen in Him, and the trusting came first.

Ephesians 1:4

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Paul is speaking of those in Christ. When he turns to the Ephesians he says "ye" and "your," and they trusted after they heard the gospel, and then they were sealed (Eph. 1:13). Trust comes first!

The Lamb is spiritual language, so the foundation is too.

Revelation 5:6

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Revelation 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

A Lamb with seven horns and seven eyes is not literal. It is tied to strong typology, so I take the whole passage as spiritual language, including "the foundation of the world." It means the start of God's people in relationship. Calvinists admit "the last days" in Joel 2 and Acts 2 do not mean the end of the physical world, but they will not give "foundation of the world" the same latitude. That is inconsistent.

The names are the faithful, Abraham to Moses and after.

Hebrews 11:39-40

And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

(The faithful before and after Abraham, into the first covenant, were not made perfect without us in the New Covenant.)

Those names are the people who trusted God, and they were added from the start of God's people. They did not get there apart from their own faith.

A name that can be blotted out was never locked in.

Exodus 32:33

And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Revelation 3:5

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

More on Before the foundation of the world.

 Joel 2:28 and Acts 2 Calvinists  admit “the last days” in the passages  don’t mean the last days of the entire world ending in cataclysm when taken at face value and  when nothing actually gives that interpretation, but the same standard cannot be applied to the phrase “before the foundation of the world “ and “from the foundation of the world “ which they assume must be taken literal and refuse to see “the foundation of the world  has the same Spiritual typology? I suppose they would since their  doctrine is so  seriously invested in the literal interpretation. Joel 2:28  was not proven to be taken literal the same could be said of Revelation 5:6 that it should be taken literal or Spiritual. It is tied clearly in my view that it is Spiritual and not literally. The lamb as it had been slain having seven eyes and seven horns etc.  Calvinists  are being inconsistent. It is tied to  strong  typology in Rev. 5:6 and 13:8  the passages in question that causes the reader to take the whole of it as Spiritual language including the phrase “the foundation of the world.” And it it’s meaning as the start of God’s people in relationship.   

Revelation 5:6 

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Revelation 13:8 

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Applying  the same standard consistently: if the “last days” of Joel 2:28 / Acts 2 are accepted as the end of the old covenant era without an explicit verse declaring “these are the final days of the world,” then the same latitude should and consistency for “before the foundation of the world” not referring to the start of physical creation. Calvinist  are not going to do that because it will refute their position and actually many of Calvinist dogma,  if not all!

Calvin’s Tulip.

 

T — Total Depravity

(Regeneration does not precede faith; the spiritually dead can hear and believe)

If anyone is saved it is because only God saves anyone. Nobody can pull themselves up by the bootstraps around God. God calls preachers to preach the gospel that in turn creates faith of the dead alien sinner whom God says can believe and obey.

John 5:24-25

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

(The spiritual dead—not literal—will hear His voice and they will live. Future tense shows regeneration did not precede faith. Then they get to be in the physical resurrection later in John 5.)

You were not saved apart from your own faith given by the grace of God. Regeneration does not precede faith!

U — Unconditional Election

(God did not pick individuals for salvation before the foundation of the world in the Calvinist sense)

Ephesians 1:4 doesn’t teach that God picked out who would be saved before He created the earth.

It teaches that God chose apostles when He founded a New Covenant.

Ephesians 1:4-12

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.

Paul speaking of those who trusted in Christ afterwards, the Ephesian church, which is why he begins using “ye” and “your”:

Ephesians 1:13-20

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places.

Before the foundation of the world. Chosen in Him.

The phrase “before the founding of the world” is the time of Abraham to Moses before the first covenant, and those names were added before the founding of the world of the Lamb before the foundation of the world. But how?

Hebrews 11:40

God having provided some better thing for us (New Covenant believers), that they (Abraham before the Covenant and into the first Covenant) without us should not be made perfect.

This is the closing verse of the “Hall of Faith” chapter in Hebrews.

Romans 8:29-30

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Romans 11:1-2

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

L — Limited Atonement

(Jesus draws all men; those “given” in John 6 & 17 are the twelve disciples)

In being lifted up on the cross Jesus draws all men by the gospel preached—that the Calvinist bypasses.

Those who are drawn by the Father and given to the Son are the twelve disciples.

John 6:37

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:39

And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:44

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 17:12

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

John 18:8-9

Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way: That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.

I — Irresistible Grace

(The Spirit can be resisted, grieved, and quenched)

Resist not the Spirit (Acts 7:51).

Grieve not the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30).

Quench not the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19).

Matthew 23:37

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

P — Perseverance of the Saints

(Endurance is required)

He that endures to the end the same shall be saved.

Acts 13:46

Acts 13:46: “Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.”

Fixes the Calvinist view in the next verse. Every one can choose for themselves to accept or reject the gospel. Being in him brings to our soul salvation destination.  As many as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 

 Acts 13:47-48: “For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained [or appointed] to eternal life believed.”

The Provisionism Problem?

 A Calvinist said: “If the dead can believe there is not reason to make them alive…..If the Spiritually dead can generate saving faith, then regeneration becomes unnecessary” 

Good Points!  

A calvinist came up with this argument recently. I thought it was great because it destroys everything everyone believes (not that it is actually true )  but it especially destroys the Calvinist and gets right to  the heart of the truth! 

First of all Calvinists do not understand that the Spiritually dead are able to respond. How do we know that? Because Jesus told us  we can. He gives us the tool we need to do so. 

Jesus said the day is coming and now is when the dead will hear my voice and they will live. John 5:24-25

The tool is grace and precedes faith. Belief or faith does not automatically make you saved although everyone believes that. Belief did not save Simon the Sorcerer who  believed and was baptized, but was in the gall of bitterness and the bond of iniquity.  It is a great misconception by most on the outside of Oneness Pentecostals that believe we teach a person is saved at belief repentence and water Baptism in Jesus name, we do not teach a person is saved at water baptism alone. Jesus himself taught us of the new birth of water and Spirit in John 3:3-8 and we believe it is a unity of one although they are two different experiences, but one is not complete without the other and is the One baptism of Eph. 4:4-6. We have a very hard time keeping folks focused who want to argue about these experiences because of already preconceived  Ideas about what we teach, but Simon in this passage is a very good example of how a person although he believes he repents and is baptized in Jesus name, but is still not saved. 

Acts 8:9-24 (KJV)

But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:

To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.

…

But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

Which brings us  now to a very controversial point and  the linch- pin to this whole idea that will hopefully help some to understand. 

That is found in 1 Corinthians 15:29-32 

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for tomorrow we die. 

I have used this argument many times with a lot of folks scratching their heads. Paul is defending this practice which I believe is simply  water baptism of believers not dead people by proxy baptism.  First off he is talking about the ressurection of the dead as his main point and mentions baptism in passing. There were some evidently that did not believe in the resurrection and Paul is teaching that those who believe repent and are baptized are still dead. That is the baptism of the dead and to receive the Spirit baptism puts it all together although he does not mention it here. This not that hard to understand.  On a side note he says “I die daily” not because of proxy baptism for the dead, but  because he puts his life in jeopardy evey hour preaching the gospel.  Paul asks if you don’t believe in the resurrection why are you even bothering to be baptized (at the very least) as there is then no reason to even mention the resurrection power of the Spirit. So Paul is justified in mentioning it and stopping where he stops at the baptism of the dead or  unregenerate dead alien sinners. I don’t know why anyone would stop there, but they do and have. The phrase:”Else what shall they do that are baptized for the dead  if the dead rise not at all ,why are they then baptized for the dead.” Is a  very clear defense for this practice. There is absolutley a reason to make them alive. The assumption is that person is saved period at belief and the bible does not teach a do nothing belief as biblical belief.

No Eternal Son

 

 Not all Oneness Pentecostals are modalists.   Nothing in scripture makes Jesus an eternal Son. It denies the virgin birth contradicts  scripture and gives two Jesus, one not born and one born. 

No we don’t have two Jesus!  Changing gears into the idea of an eternal Son.

“For unto which of the angels said he at any time, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.”

Hebrews 1:5-6  this passage destroys the Trinitarian view of an eternal Son because the passage is in the future tense of old an old Testament passage.  

To make matters worse the angels have to be told to worship their God because they have never seen god jr before. In verse 8 yes Jesus is called God because of the incarnation, but not at all how trinitarians explain incarnation. Incarnation is simply a compound of two words. “In “ a preposition and “carne “ latin for meat or flesh. As God in Flesh. We are not just talking about some meat puppet.  Jesus himself said the Only true God is the Father. John 17:3

Only” translates the Greek word μόνον (monon), the accusative form of μόνος (monos).

In English, it functions as a restrictive adjective (or limiting adjective). It modifies “true God” and emphasizes exclusivity/uniqueness: the Father is the sole or one-and-only true God (in contrast to false gods, idols, or any other claimants to deity). 

 Judges 11:34 the Septuagint (LXX) — the ancient Greek translation of the Old Testament — Judges 11:34 uses the word μονογενής (monogenēs) 

Hebrews 10:5 (KJV):

“For when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me.”

I had  one trinitarian tell me the above passage proves he pre-existed  his birth because Jesus is making this claim as he is coming into the world . But no that is a very bad interpretation of the passage. The passage has to do with Jesus coming into his ministry. 

Jesus says Father the same exact way you sent me into the world even so have I sent these (disciples into the world) John  17:18

  The disciples were sent into the world (their ministry)   Jesus no more pre-existed than did the disciples. Neither were sent from eternity they were all sent into ministry. 

As for the same person: the man Jesus  was not another god person. which is just another god. Jesus as genuine man has his own lower mind will and intellect distinct from the Father who is invisible Spirit. How Jesus is God is because he was given the Father’s divinity without measure. It his possession he is not possessed. John 3:34

There is no fatal flaw for Oneness concerning an eternal Son, but there clearly is for the trinitarian view! 

  Jesus said the only true God is the father. That is  whom Jesus is! Trinitarians  are confusing his genuine humanity with their doctrine of god jr with god sr. Trinitarian don’t get upset over my usage of  the term “god jr.” no such term exists in scripture that tells us  of a “god the Son”. If  Trinitarians can  use a non-biblical term then so can I! Right? The correct term is “Son of God. “

I can give plenty of examples of Oneness doctrine in history, but low and behold wouldn’t you know it , as prevalent as their enemies said they existed we cannot find any of their writings?  

I wonder why that is? Tertullian told us about Praxeas. We know Zephrynius and Collextus existed in history. We know of Noetus. We know of Michael Servetus. We don’t know really what they taught snd I have trinitarians lie on me about things I teach. Tertullian said the simple indeed were always in the majority of the believers. Talking about Praxeas.

Artificial Intelligence: AI Wars trinity V Oneneess

 AI Wars Trinity V Oneness.

 I knew this day was coming—artificial intelligence is everywhere, and I used it to pen this piece. Tech giants and startups are locked in an AI war, racing to build machines that outsmart us all. Now, AI’s crashing into theology, spotlighting ancient questions about God and the Word. It’s digging into *Logos*—the divine Word in John 1:1-3—and how it shapes our view of Jesus as God. Was *Logos* a separate person facing off with God, or God’s own eternal plan, always before His face? John 1:1-3 lays it out: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” In Greek, *Logos* means “word,” “reason,” or “plan,” echoing the Hebrew *dabar* in Psalm 33:6, where God’s word creates without being a person. Early English Bibles, like Tyndale’s 1526 New Testament, called *Logos* “it”: “All things were made by it, without it nothing was made.” Coverdale and the Great Bible followed, treating *Logos* as God’s power or plan. But the Geneva Bible and King James Version shifted to “he,” tying *Logos* to Christ, the Word made flesh in John 1:14: “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.” Why the switch? Greek grammar allows “it”—*Logos* is neuter. But post-Reformation theology leaned into “he,” seeing *Logos* as the pre-incarnate Christ, a distinct person sharing God’s essence. Modern Bibles, like the NIV and ESV, stick with “he,” emphasizing John’s context over grammar. Are translators hiding something? Probably not. Translation balances text and intent. Early “it” translations suggest *Logos* as God’s expression, not a person. AI’s diving in, crunching Greek texts and comparing *Logos* to *dabar*. It’s fueling X debates over whether “he” pushes dogma or “it” misses the mark. Revelation 13:8 adds weight: the Lamb was “slain from the foundation of the world.” This shows God’s plan—His *Logos*—always included Jesus’ sacrifice. So, *Logos* isn’t a separate person but God’s eternal purpose, embodied in Jesus when “the Word was made flesh” (John 1:14). John 3:34 says Jesus, sent by God, gets the Spirit without measure, meaning he fully embodies God’s essence, not a distinct person facing God. Then there’s 2 Peter 1:4: believers can be “partakers of the divine nature.” This essence—God’s core being, like holiness—ties to *Logos*. Jesus, as *Logos* incarnate, is God’s plan and essence in human form, not a second person in an eternal standoff. AI’s amplifying this, analyzing terms like *physis* (nature) in 2 Peter and *Logos* in John, stirring up whether Jesus is God’s singular expression or part of a complex Godhead. X users clash: some say “he” reflects John 1:14’s incarnation; others argue “it” keeps *Logos* as God’s unified will. AI doesn’t pick sides—it churns out data, from manuscripts to posts. This isn’t just theology. AI’s role in parsing *Logos* shows tech’s power to reshape faith debates. Truth lies in the wrestle—ancient texts versus modern tools, one God versus complex distinctions. As AI digs deeper, *Logos* proves old questions burn bright, and tech’s fanning the flames. ---

Prototokos and Firstborn.

 Trinitarian's tend to believe" Oneness Pentecostals deny the  teaching that Jesus was creator", simply because we do not believe Jesus was another God person known as "the Son of God" and that Jesus pre-existed his birth and was at creation with God the Father before the earth and man existed. That is simply not the case as far as creation goes, however we do deny the doctrine of the trinity and  that Jesus was a co-creator , but rather his divinity that of God the Father was the creator and that he Jesus was actually born of a virgin like scripture teaches. Here is one of  the passages that has Jesus as creator Colossians 1:16 states, “ all things were made by him".. Here is the entire creation passage in question:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Note the phrase firstborn of every created creature. 

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: "Through "  the preposition, as in the phrase: "Through" Him.

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Jesus is not a man only, he is  also God in flesh, and a genuine man at the same time. 

"By Him" works for me! Jesus the man was given the Spirit of his God and Father, the Only true God, by no measure.(John 3:34) Making him the Only True God the Father in flesh/man/Son. He the man both pre-existed and did not pre-exist. Jesus both died and did not die, as both God and man at the same time. To take creation away from him is measuring, to take away the only true God the Father in flesh is measuring.(John 17;3) Jesus said the only true God is the Father. Jesus was made the Only true God in the incarnation. He Jesus the man had to be made such, because his humanity did not pre-exist.  That is the "through" or "by him" and "for him" inclusion in genesis 1. This is no problem for Oneness Pentecostals.

Jesus was made the Only true God in the incarnation because the man and Son of God was born of his mother and did not pre-exist his birth. Read Hebrews 1:5, Hebrews 1:8 is exactly because of the incarnation. Read also Romans 5:14? Adam who was the figure of him (Jesus) that was to come. Even though Adam was made in the perfect man's image, he was not back there, but the man Jesus was included when God said: "Let Us make Man in our Image, after our Likeness." Jesus the man is the image of the Invisible God. Col. 1:15. God is not the image of God. The man Jesus is the Seen of the Not seen God. The Only Image of God in flesh.

The Greek word and "Prototokos the Firstborn of all creation." Trinitarian's will say: in reference to Col. 1:15 and Jesus being "the firstborn" has a greater meaning than it actually has, and some special meaning in reference to their doctrine of the Trinity,  of three person's of God and especially "God the Son."  but prototokos has to do with birth whether spiritual or natural. Note the following passages where prototokos is used: Luke 2:7 , Romans 8:29, Colossians 1:15, Colossians 1:18, Hebrews 1:6 , Hebrews 11:28 , Hebrews 12:23 , Revelation 1:5 . Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are "the offspring of God", we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Jesus was the only begotten Son of God. The Only Son Born of a virgin. (Unique) but still a  virgin birth, no other Son can make that claim."Adam was also the Son of God." Luke 3:38. But he was not born of a virgin.  Nor was Adam a created angel. Adam was begotten of the dust of the ground by God himself and breathing life, man became a living soul.Genesis 2:7-9. Jesus was the first thought of God before creation(A thought brought forth birthed) and was the perfect man Adam was figured in.  As Paul said before : Adam was the figure of him that was to come. Romans 5:14  In every sense. Adam was the first in creation, but Jesus was the perfect pattern. Note the word figure or  "type" and recall Genesis 1:26? the other meanings for that word: the mark of a stroke or blow; print,a figure formed by a blow or impression;Image, pattern example. Which goes perfectly with what Oneness Pentecostals are saying about creation.

Now recall the many uses for the word "prototokos" It is a great stretch to mean  or to insert into the dogma of the Trinity concerning a pre-existent person of God.  This is not a denial He is Sovereign but it is a denial he is is pre-existent and the word usage is inconsistent to prove  Jesus as a  pre-existent God  person. There is simply no proof of a pre-existent God person in the word itself.
 

Pauline Doctrine of "Faith Alone" Does Not Exist.

 

The following article excerpt comes from  a reformed, that attempts multiple critiques concerning Oneness Pentecostals view of New Testament Soteriology, particularly water baptism in Jesus name being orally invoked over those being baptized. The writer then makes the assertion that Oneness Pentecostals deny salvation is by "faith alone" or  as he calls it: "Sola Fide". I will attempt to say a little about most of every thing he says,  but I am not worried that I don't touch on everything. The Reformed writer says the follwing:

Over and over again, Oneness writers proclaim ‘Acts 2:38 is the gospel,’[39] without tempering such a claim with the balance of the NT. If Oneness Pentecostals tempered their interpretation of Acts 2:38 with the balance of NT teaching on soteriology, their legalistic insistence upon baptism with the oral invocation of Jesus’ name would evaporate. Instead of the sufficiency of Scripture as it relates to soteriology, Oneness Pentecostals affirm the sufficiency and exclusivity of Acts 2:38. The Oneness hermeneutic effectively obliterates the Pauline doctrine of sola fide, and puts Pauline anthropology on its head. How can justification be by faith “without works” (Rom. 4:6) if obedience to Christ’s command of baptism is required? Bernard’s soteriology negates Paul’s claim that “Those in the flesh do not have the ability to please God” (Rom. 8:6). If unbelievers are incapable of pleasing God, then how might they engage in obedience to the command of Christ prior to the regenerative work of the Spirit of God? I will now proceed to work backwards with what the Reformed writer claims, to the beginning of his points, taking each point. 


  Point 1.)
Bernard’s soteriology negates Paul’s claim that “Those in the flesh do not have the ability to please God” (Rom. 8:6). If unbelievers are incapable of pleasing God, then how might they engage in obedience to the command of Christ prior to the regenerative work of the Spirit of God?
1.) My reasons for this writing has nothing to do with the defense of David Bernard. You can take that up with him, but I do not believe any of what you have stated is true of Bernard because of reading many of his works myself that state the opposite. What you mean more than likely,is "all Oneness Pentecostals. "  This is not true. We believe in Justification by faith but we reject your views of it and I will attempt to show what the scriptures say and teach on the subject.

I will let Jesus  himself tell you, since he commissioned the Apostles. John 5:25
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. God allows everyone to be saved although that had not yet come to the gentiles until Acts 10.

Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear, is that you do not belong to God."John 8:48 later everyone is included and I believe Jesus is setting the order of things. Jesus was saying the Jews did not belong to God for a specific reason and it had nothing to do with the Calvin dogma of inability. The Jews in Jesus time, all they had to do was repent and turn back to God. When they recognized the words Jesus was speaking, but they were blinded in part.
 
 Again Jews only at this point, please keep in mind gentiles were not included yet. This was only to the Jews. Also know that God had to open their (the disciples) Understanding that they might understand the Scriptures in Luke 24:45-53. The power of the Spirit also did not come upon them until Acts chapter 2:4. The preaching of the word of God in conjunction with the Spirit of God together gets the job done. The Letter kills, but the Spirit makes Alive. 2 Cor. 3:6

2 Corinthians 4:3-4 And even if our gospel is ( Hidden) , it is (Hidden) to those who are perishing. (Lost)
in whom the god of this age has BLINDED THE MINDS of the unbelieving, so as for not to beam forth the illumination of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. That can be remedied by the preaching of the gospel.

The following was a promise they had not yet received. the Spirit gave them the power in  Acts 2? Notice they had power to remit sins? This is left out when anyone talks about baptism for the remission of sins. The name Jesus is  what Oneness Pentecostals claim is the reason and power to remit the sins. James 5:14  this is to the already established church body.
14 Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven.

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. Which takes us right to Luke 24:45-48.

I will now insert the Apostle Paul. 

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.14 How then (A negation of the former Until the following is done) shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?17 So then FAITH  COMETH BY HEARING , and hearing by the WORD OF GOD. (You are not saved apart from hearing the preaching of the word)

Can you imagine God telling us all this and it is not true and we are not even able to believe?  Also make note of the verb "sent" from the phrase "a preacher sent of God."  John 17:18 as you have sent me into the world, or the same exact way you have sent me, even so have I sent these into the world. The Disciples or later Apostles.

1 John 2:2  and he is the propitiation for our sins and NOT OURS ONLY, but the sins of the whole world.
Without interjecting of my beliefs, but quoting the scripture. We see that God has given for us the ability to believe or reject the gospel when we hear the gospel message, the same way the Jews did in Acts 2. The dead are already Lost and do not believe, but Jesus tells us there will come a time and now is that time when they will be able to do just that with in the time frame of his ministry going forward. The claim is not being made that belief in Jesus alone or on Jesus alone as some make claim, is what saves. because the scriptures make the following claim: And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him. Acts 5:32.

 Point 2. writes:"The Oneness hermeneutic effectively obliterates the Pauline doctrine of sola fide, and puts Pauline anthropology on its head. How can justification be by faith “without works” (Rom. 4:6) if obedience to Christ’s command of baptism is required?"  First of all, there is no Pauline doctrine of "Sola Fide." That is a Reformed dogma that does not exist anywhere in scripture. "Without the works of the Law"  The scripture itself destroys the doctrine... "Alone" is inserted anytime they the Reformed see the word "faith." It has been inserted so much, they cannot see anything else.  Obedience to God's word puts Faith in action. it is what we do and have. There is only one passage in all of scripture that talks about "faith alone" and it is not on the side of Reformed dogma.
James 2: 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? faith is imperfect (dead faith or disobedience) without obedience to the word of God.

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by WORKS A MAN IS JUSTIFIED, and not by faith only. Paul is talking about obedience to the word of God apart from the works of the Law.

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should OBEY it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are ALIVE FROM THE DEAD, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.  

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. Note that the "works" Paul is speaking of in Eph. 2:8:9 are the works of the Law. Particular work not obedient faith.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that To WHOM YOU YIELD YOURSELVES SERVANTS TO OBEY, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of OBEDIENCE unto righteousness? (There is no getting out of this it is about obedience to the word or your flesh)

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have OBEYED from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Acts 2:38. The Roman church.
Notice what Peter says in  the following passage? 1 Peter 5:12 

12 With the help of Silas, whom I regard as a faithful brother, I have written to you briefly, encouraging you and testifying that this is the TRUE GRACE of God. Stand fast in it. 13 She who is in(or the church at) Babylon,(Jerusalem) chosen together with you, sends you her greetings, and so does my son Mark. Peter preached Acts 2:38 to be saved. Was it the true grace or not?

I most certainly have not forgotten Romans 6 although I have only posted the last half of the passage as the first half agrees with the Oneness Pentecostal view fully.
Romans 6;1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:(water baptism in Jesus name) that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.(Spirit baptism) The One Baptism is a Unity of One water and Spirit baptism. being born of the water and of the Spirit.(John 3:3-8)

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, (Buried with him In  water baptism) we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection. <Baptism of the Spirit> Acts 2:38 is the grace given everyone as the promise is unto you and to your Jews  Children ,  and to all that are afar off,even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Acts 2:39